| ||||||
| Gay Marriage Debate and defend your political beliefs as to whether or not marriage should be only defined as a union between a man and a woman. |
![]() |
| | LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
| | #1 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Senator ![]() Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,836
| Reparative Therapy & Ex-Gays July 30, 2005 Love In Action ATTN: John Smid, Director Memphis, TN Dear Mr. Smid: We as born again Christians believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. We Basically agree on the fundamentals of salvation. I've been a born again Christian for over 50 years and I've noticed Christians reading the same scriptural passages, yet arriving at different personal interpretations regarding moral issues. Some of these issues that have divided Christians within recent years have been slavery, women's rights, the Charismatic movement and other issues, including divorce. Within my lifetime, I've known members of my own family being asked to leave churches they had attended for years over issues of divorce and re-marriage, yet later welcomed back when a different interpretation of scripture was explained. Today, the subject of homosexuality is being discussed among Christians. Most Christians find the subject too uncomfortable to make a personal investigation, but rely upon the traditional Christian condemnation of homosexuality. There are more scriptures dealing with divorce than homosexuality, yet, today, Christians give each other the freedom of personal interpretation regarding divorce. I'm sure homosexuality will be added to the long list of disagreements among Christians. In 1973, when I helped organize the "ex-gay" ministry called Love In Action, I admit I had never heard of a different view of homosexuality or made an effort to research the issue. I held to the traditional Christian condemnation that all homosexuality was sinful. One day, I read a booklet by Dr. Ralph Blair called, "An Evangelical Look At Homosexuality." I prayed before reading this booklet and was shocked, yet refreshed, because I had never heard such remarks regarding this subject from another Evangelical Christian. I wrote Ralph Blair that I would like to discuss his views regarding this matter and his return letter informed me he could meet with me at my home in San Rafael, Calif. The night he arrived I invited several of my friends who were also involved with Love in Action to join us. We studied the scriptures dealing with homosexuality. I had struggled most of my life with this matter and I would continue to try to be "ex-gay" if it were God's will. Over the past 30 years I have studied both sides of this subject and now know it's not my sexual orientation that's wrong or sinful. But one should allow the Holy Spirit to guide his or her life whatever one's sexual orientation. I challenge other Christians to study the scriptures to show yourself approved unto God and don't be afraid to challenge the traditional condemnation of homosexuality. The Church has been wrong in the past regarding other issues and I'm sure there will be others before Jesus returns. I know my views regarding homosexuality and being Christian does not agree with most Christians and I've been accused of being "deceived and tricked by the Devil." God alone knows my heart and Jesus Christ means too much to me to go against the leading of the Holy Spirit as he guides me as a born again Christian. Someday, each of us will stand alone before God to give an account of our lives and I want Him to be satisfied with me. I just returned from the 25th annual Conference of Evangelicals Concerned, a group of gay Christians who know that it is possible to be both gay and Christian. In the past 30 years since leaving the "ex-gay" ministry I have seen nothing but shattered lives, depression and even suicide among those connected with the "ex-gay" movement. At the E.C. conference I met gay Christians who have an even closer relationship with Jesus. The Holy Spirit seemed to hover over the entire conference. The closing communion service seemed as if Jesus Himself was there saying, "Come to me all who labor and are laden with the burden of trying to conform to the impossible conclusions of others, and I will give you rest." Again, I challenge Christians to investigate all sides of the issue of being gay and Christian. The Church has been wrong in the past regarding moral issues and I'm sure there will be more before Christ returns. Love in Christ, John Evans Original Member of Love In Action, 1973 Ex-Gay Watch: Love In Action Co-Founder: 'My Ministry Shatters Lives' "(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish." -- Jon Stewart "Please don't judge others by your own standards." -- Garysher | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Sponsored Links |
| | #2 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wild Wild West Gender: ![]() Posts: 7,659
| That guy is a heretic. The bible is clear in the new testament that homosexuality is sin. Can it be forgiven? Yes. Can divorce be forgiven. Yes. Jesus told the woman at the well..."Go and sin no more". | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #3 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| *Premium Member* Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New Haven, CT Gender: ![]() Posts: 8,764 Country: ![]()
| To: Louise, dear friend, beloved of God From: Bruce, by the immeasurable grace of God, a brother in Christ Your heavy-hearted words to Anna Marie and me the last time we saw you will always burn in our hearts: "My brother hates God because God made him gay, and he knows he is going to hell, and I do, too, for that is what the Bible says." I struggled for a response, realizing suddenly that what I knew about gays and what the Bible says about them was very superficial. Anna Marie's immediate response to you was, "No one will go to hell who puts his faith in Jesus Christ." How gloriously true! Whatever else the Bible says or doesn`t say, homosexuals are not necessarily going to hell. I decided to give serious study to homosexuality and what the Bible says about it. Thank God! There was so much to learn about gays and lesbians--and the Bible--that I am so glad to have come to know. It distresses me, though, to realize that most others of our church people do not know these facts about homosexuality and what the Bible really says, and that their thinking, like my previous concept, is based on suppositions, not facts, and on feelings, which, of course, have no place in a thoughtful consideration of facts. I am now convinced that the presumption that you and your brother have about his condemnation is unjustified. I have written out what I believe is clearly a correct interpretation of pertinent Biblical passages; it is Appendix B to this letter. A correct interpretation is dependent on following dependable principles of interpretation, so I discuss these principles in Appendix A. In the body of the letter I have put the convictions I have come to into ten statements that I believe you and I and your brother and our church families must come to understand about homosexuality and about gays and lesbians. But I know some will never accept them, so I have something I want to say to those people; I have made it Appendix C. Forgive the length of this treatise, but I didn't think I could address this matter adequately with fewer words. Also forgive the somewhat academic structure; I felt the nature of my study rather required it. I pray that this will give you some of the welcome insights my study has given me. The letter is first rate - accessible, intelligent, well researched and honest. A very well written essay by a Baptist minister, which shows what can be learned when studying an issue with an open mind and heart instead of attempting to find validation for ingrained, irrational prejudices. It can be read at: http://www.godmademegay.com/Letter.htm | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #4 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| *Premium Member* Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New Haven, CT Gender: ![]() Posts: 8,764 Country: ![]()
| | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #5 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wild Wild West Gender: ![]() Posts: 7,659
| Thankfully, this Exodus ministry director knew the importance of church and how embracing community would help me find healing. God led me to a church called New Song Christian Fellowship. This church was not afraid of what I was struggling with, and did not reject me. I opened up to one of the pastors and he committed to walking this out with me. “Walking this out” meant being forced to deal with lots of difficult issues that either I hadn’t allowed God to reveal to me or I simply chose to ignore. God used my new found community to minister the truth that I was searching for. These pastors and leaders helped me discover my identity in Christ. They helped me face other difficult issues in my life which contributed to my same-sex struggle such as depression, rejection, false identity, and false perceptions. As I joined in the community and began serving at church, I found those healthy friendships that I had longed for. I found other guys willing to walk along side of me, keep me accountable, and encourage me. These guys weren’t just my friends; they were God’s provision as the very covenant companions I had longed and prayed for. So why was it worth it? I no longer walk around confused about my identity. God has given me the wholeness and healing that I was so desperate for. He not only saved me, He liberated me and continues to liberate me. I finally understand what it means to not just be a Christian, but have a personal relationship with an awesome, loving, and gracious God. I am not only free of the bondage of unwanted same-sex attraction, I continue to walk free of anything that hinders my relationship with Him. The process has brought me closer to God and has shown me my complete dependence on Him. As a testimony to His faithfulness in my life, I now serve on staff at Exodus International. God has taken what He has done in my life to give others hope; to share the very message that as a student, I was so desperate for. This year I have spoken to several student pastors and at several colleges. I was even blessed with the opportunity to share my testimony in a chapel service at my own college. God has given me the strength to fight and regain ground that Satan tried to take from me. As I continue to offer myself obedient, He continues to give me incredible blessing and favor. My passion is to help the church become a place of safety, refuge, and support for those struggling with unwanted homosexuality. After all, the Church is where I, among many others, have found healing. Our culture is telling youth, men, and women to accept and embrace their struggle as their identity, while the church has remained silent. We are living in a time where sin is not only being tolerated, it is being celebrated. The church has a great opportunity if we will seize this moment. There is a great harvest waiting to be discovered! -- David Fountain is the Conference Director at Exodus.He oversees seminars and conference events, including the Annual Exodus Freedom Conference. He also is involved with the Groundswell Conference that equips community leaders with a powerful, redemptive response to the growing crisis of pro-gay initiatives in America’s schools. He has shared his personal story at colleges, schools, youth forums and in churches. The whole story here: Exodus International - Why Was It Worth It? | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #6 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Council Member ![]() Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The great, dead heart of suburbia Gender: ![]() Posts: 1,537 Country: ![]()
| That guy is what I like to call not only a "good christian" but also a "smart person." He remembers that there's a side to each argument and that they should both be considered. Bravo to him. As for YOU, alias, exactly where in the New Testament was homosexuality condemned? "Every time I hear the phrase 'Christian nation' I run to my car and blast a Slayer album at full volume." - Me | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #7 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wild Wild West Gender: ![]() Posts: 7,659
| In 1993, I was sucked into homosexual pornography available so easily on the internet. I longed to be a part of what I was seeing, and these longings were not going away. I came close to shelving my Christian beliefs, but in a last effort, I got on my face before God. I admitted to him that I was not growing out of this phase and I could not reconcile Christianity with a gay lifestyle. I cried out to Him for help. I got up the courage to ask the pastor of the church I attended and served in if he knew of any ministries that would provide hope and help for one who did not want to live a gay lifestyle; this of course, under the guise of “it’s for a friend.” He helped me to find a local counselor. I had been influenced negatively about Christian counseling, and was hesitant to try. Later, I was having lunch with a Christian co-worker. In conversation about ministry at an AIDS hospice, I commented that there were not any ministries that helped people get out of the lifestyle before they reached this stage. She later gave me an ad in a newsletter about Exodus International. I made that nervous call to the Exodus office and requested an information packet. Among the list of ministries was the counselor my pastor had given me. That same counselor had a book in the resource catalog, called “Desires in Conflict.” Glimmers of hope began to shine as I saw God answering my prayers. I ordered books and began reading. I came to a turning point while reading “Coming out of Homosexuality” by Bob Davies. I read the part that covered the 1 Cor. 6:9-11 verses, and remember vividly closing the book, and grabbing my Bible to read those verses for myself in disbelief. I had always passed by the “homosexual offenders” phrase and the “as some of you once were” phrase. I did not recall hearing any hope for change ever being offered before. The scales began to fall from my eyes and a sense of hope truly entered my life. Later, I received a brochure for the Exodus Conference. I had reservations about it, but something hooked me. As I wrote the check, I began to admit I had a problem. There were over 600 delegates at this conference and I began to realize that I was not alone in my struggle and that others were going through this as well. I was like a sponge soaking it all in. I had been to Christian conferences before but experienced nothing like this. Worship was one of the most phenomenal times I will always remember. The worship leader was no one I had ever heard of, and I did not know any of his music, style, or story. Yet during the entire week, I found such a familiarity with his music. He helped me to be able to openly worship God. As he sung, I realized that this is what I wanted and longed to express to my Lord, as well as the ability to receive truth about God through these songs. Grace permeated the atmosphere. An opportunity to fall presented itself while I was away on a lengthy business trip a few months after my first Exodus conference. When temptation struck, an amazing thing happened! Everything I had read, listened to at Exodus, or talked about in counseling came rushing to my mind. God opened a wide door for me to walk through. The choice was difficult, but I chose to walk away. If life is static and non-changing, then all you get is black and white. It’s only when people allow themselves to grow and mature as people and human beings that they see the world through colored eyes. The people of Pleasantville change when they do something freely and of their own will. Only then do the roads open up and the life beyond the town exists. I am a work in progress and will be the rest of my life. I choose to freely give over my own will daily (admittedly not perfectly) as I work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am growing day by day in the boundless love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. I am pressing on towards God’s will for my life (for all of ours really) – sanctification and holiness (1 Thess. 4:3). -- Ron Rapp is the Exodus Representative for the Southern California Region. He is a Senior Litigation Paralegal in the Los Angeles area for a global energy company. Ron is also a part time student at Fuller Theological Seminary, pursing a Masters degree in Theology. He is currently serving as a discipleship group leader and prayer minister at his church in California. Ron has been around Exodus since 1995 and for the past few years has served on the prayer team at the Annual Exodus Freedom Conferences. The full story here: Exodus International - Finding Vibrant Color | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #8 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wild Wild West Gender: ![]() Posts: 7,659
| The sinful habits I had made were hard to break because they were more than just habits; sex was how I dealt with life! I had to face the pain of my past and reject the lies I had believed about myself. I had to start making healthy relationships. This is an arduous process which continues to this day. Making friends with other guys is so hard. Sometimes the littlest thing can trigger my old insecurities and bring up deep hurts. But I know these things are brought to the surface so that the Lord can heal them. Other times, I’ve struggled with being attracted to my guy friends. But each time the Lord has helped me push past these automatic responses to cultivate a real relationship with the real person behind the appearance. Sometimes guys don’t seem interested in letting me be their friend, and that hurts too. Through all of it, I am learning that Jesus alone is “the one,” my best friend, my always-faithful lover, and He’ll take care of all my needs no matter what. There’ve been disappointments, though. I was attending a fairly large church when I first began to truly journey out of the lifestyle, and I wanted a mentor. When I told my youth pastor what I struggled with, he said he wouldn’t do it. The director of our men’s ministries also told me he didn’t think anyone in the church would want to. I was devastated. I left that church, but in just a few days I met someone who invited me to another church where I met a godly man who was unafraid to be my mentor and friend, and that’s what he is to this day. And everyone wants to know: “Do you like girls!?” The answer is: “I’ll get there when I’m supposed to!” Many aren’t impressed to hear this. You aren’t supposed to be impressed with me, but with God’s love, grace and power. Heterosexuality isn’t the goal, holiness is. And I am getting there! More than anything, my relationship with Jesus is changing me from the inside out. At my first Exodus conference, a complete stranger told me that God loved me “as though He had no other children at all.” What that stranger didn’t know was that deep inside I had always felt that God only loved me because He had to, that was his job as God (this was really how I felt about my dad, the pastor). That’s just one example of how Jesus’ love has undone the lies that so deeply wounded my identity. As I walk daily in deeper intimacy with Him, and in genuine intimacy with other guys, I experience continuing victory over this struggle. Soon I will celebrate four years of freedom. The walk out of Egypt didn’t happen overnight and it is not over yet. But God is showing me His power to do the impossible in my life. He is healing the lonely little boy inside, rebuilding my shattered masculinity, and daily extending grace to an imperfect son. Today I’m an intern counselor at New Creation Ministries in Fresno, doing for others what Donna did for me. I provide a safe place for struggling young people to open themselves up and be who they are, a place where they can hear the truth including the great hope that goes along with it! I also feel a strong call to take the Gospel into the gay community. Every year when they have their parades and festivals, my friends and I are there, handing out snacks and telling people the Good News. Not that “you’d better change,” but that the good God of change does love everyone, and He does do the impossible! -- In October of 2005, Mike came on staff with Exodus as an assistant to the Youth and Student Division. He lives in Orlando, Florida. The full story here: Exodus International - True Love Changes You | |||||||||||||||||||||
| | #9 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| *Premium Member* Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New Haven, CT Gender: ![]() Posts: 8,764 Country: ![]()
| Quote:
Most gay people do not have confusion about their identity. I guess this isn't the guy that started Exodus, right? The one that ended up refusing to live a lie any longer and admitted that he was (of course) gay? | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| | #10 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Council Member ![]() Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The great, dead heart of suburbia Gender: ![]() Posts: 1,537 Country: ![]()
| By "that guy" I meant the one in first article, btw. "Every time I hear the phrase 'Christian nation' I run to my car and blast a Slayer album at full volume." - Me | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
« Previous Thread
|
Next Thread »
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 AM.














Linear Mode