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Another State Inches Towards Equality

Gay Marriage Debate and defend your political beliefs as to whether or not marriage should be only defined as a union between a man and a woman.

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Old 04-24-2007, 10:08 AM   #21 (permalink)
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>>2,000 year old book written by nomads living in huts are NOT good sources for morality<<

It's too bad such an ignorant statement nullifies everything else you say. Whether you have Christian faith or not, the books of the Bible were not written by common nomads living in huts. Such people were illiterate.
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Old 04-24-2007, 12:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
No. It is not.
The only substantiation of "gay marriage is a threat to marriage" that you can give is that it is a change.
If you can give MORE substantiation to that claim, then do so.

Until then, my statement is accurate. To date, nobody has supplied any detriment to marriage.



It's the truth.
If you don't like it, then I recommend you stop lying.



No. That is not a "clear inference". Nor is it an intelligent inference.
Obviously, the SPECIFICS of the issue at hand come into play.
Some change is good.
Some change is bad.
On the issue of gay marriage, the only argument that I have seen that "gay marriage is a threat" revolves around change to the definition of marriage. Calling it a "threat" because changing the definition is a "threat".
Thanks for backing off your previous position that "change = good"

You have now publicly accepted that this is not always the case.

And on the question of redefining marriage to accommodate homosexuals, the American people have said repeatedly that they don't see that change as good, for numerous reasons

Your side has failed to come up with any good reason for this change, other than to continue your whiny demands to have us believe that

1) it's okay to be gay
2) a same sex couple is no different from a mixed sex couple

We suggest you re-focus on obtaining civil union status for any pairing of two people. Once you achieve that, legalisation is polygamy is only a short step away.

And your unproven accusations of lying are just another sign you are losing the argument with your every post
Old 04-24-2007, 12:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman View Post
the books of the Bible were not written by common nomads living in huts. Such people were illiterate.
I prefer 'bronze age shepherds'
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Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 04-24-2007, 01:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I prefer 'bronze age shepherds'
Actually, we're really not sure who wrote the Bible - especially the Old Testament. However, alot of the New Testament is attributed to Paul. Haven't you studied that in your Church?
Old 04-24-2007, 02:49 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman View Post
Actually, we're really not sure who wrote the Bible - especially the Old Testament.
There is good evidence to suggest that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible.
Old 04-24-2007, 03:52 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I prefer 'bronze age shepherds'
Either way, they were poor, primitive, and had little understanding of the world beyond tradition & survival.
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Thanks for backing off your previous position that "change = good"
He said SOME change is bad. I don't think he's trying to apply the principle that it's good to everything, because in this case it IS good.

Quote:
And on the question of redefining marriage to accommodate homosexuals, the American people have said repeatedly that they don't see that change as good, for numerous reasons
Have they? I remember people saying the same thing in disparaging Brown v. Board of Education over fifty years ago. Look how that turned out.

Quote:
Your side has failed to come up with any good reason for this change, other than to continue your whiny demands to have us believe that

1) it's okay to be gay
2) a same sex couple is no different from a mixed sex couple
That's plenty of good reason. You're just not seeing the core idea we're presenting. Speaking of proof, have you any tangible proof of the "negative" effects of such a practice?

Quote:
We suggest you re-focus on obtaining civil union status for any pairing of two people. Once you achieve that, legalisation is polygamy is only a short step away.
I'm gonna really get grilled on this one, but upon what basis is polygamy negative?
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:08 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
He said SOME change is bad. I don't think he's trying to apply the principle that it's good to everything, because in this case it IS good.

>>>>>>>>

The American people seem to disagree with you and Foundit based on the fact that they vote against homosexual "marriage" every chance they get
Have they? I remember people saying the same thing in disparaging Brown v. Board of Education over fifty years ago. Look how that turned out.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

What on earth does that have to do with redefining marriage ?!?
That's plenty of good reason. You're just not seeing the core idea we're presenting. Speaking of proof, have you any tangible proof of the "negative" effects of such a practice?

>>>>>>>>>>>

It trivialises and ridicules the tradition of marriage
I'm gonna really get grilled on this one, but upon what basis is polygamy negative?
For those of us who believe that marriage is for one man and one woman, as the basis for having a family, any other permutation of individuals is not appropriate.

But once marriage has been re-defined for two people of the same sex there is no rational basis for NOT redefining it to include any permutation of individuals
Old 04-24-2007, 04:09 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
I'm gonna really get grilled on this one, but upon what basis is polygamy negative?
Don't ask me.

I can't imagine living that way - after 35 years with one person, I can't fathom going through all that with two or three others all at the same time LOL.

There are myriad legal problems to the government recognizing these polygamous marriages - but, if those can be worked out, what do I care if they are living 3 or 4 together. They're doing it NOW. No skin off my nose. If people aren't harming others, they should be left the hell alone.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

Bigotry is a social disease.

Legalized same-sex marriage almost certainly benefits those same-sex couples who choose to marry, as well as the children being raised in those homes. - David Blankenhorn is president of the New York-based Institute for American Values and the author of "The Future of Marriage."
Old 04-24-2007, 04:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
The American people seem to disagree with you and Foundit based on the fact that they vote against homosexual "marriage" every chance they get
Okay, what does that have to do with the nature of positive change?

Quote:
What on earth does that have to do with redefining marriage ?!?
The Brown v. Board of Education ruling went above the heads of the Kansas voters. It is probably the best known case of "judicial activism" available, and in the long term it has been proven that the effects were positive. It was not a redefenition of marriage, but it was still an example of courts setting a precedent which was realized by society in a good way.

Quote:
It trivialises and ridicules the tradition of marriage
What do you have to support that claim? Graphs? Surveys? Precedents? Be sure to include only reputable sources, meaning no church groups OR gay rights organizations. Find ones from partisan groups or government studies. As neutral as possible.

Quote:
For those of us who believe that marriage is for one man and one woman, as the basis for having a family, any other permutation of individuals is not appropriate.

But once marriage has been re-defined for two people of the same sex there is no rational basis for NOT redefining it to include any permutation of individuals
From what I've seen in many polygamist communities (the ones where the leaders are morally upright), there's actually a VERY strong familial and community bond. Everybody knows each other and participates in getting things done. That's one case study, but it proves that polygamy is not necessarily a negative.

Like Tristan, I'd imagine the biggest obstacles would be financial and bureaucratic constraints.
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