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Old 05-17-2007, 06:07 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:20 PM   #132 (permalink)
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So how come you describe my free speech as a racial slur?

I'm just exercising my lights !
It's not your right to blatantly be offensive... You aren't making statements based on reason or facts, you are hate mongering, and in the process making for a less comfortable experience for the rest of our users.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:22 PM   #133 (permalink)
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It's not your right to blatantly be offensive... You aren't making statements based on reason or facts, you are hate mongering, and in the process making for a less comfortable experience for the rest of our users.







Old 05-17-2007, 06:38 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:54 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
So how come you describe my free speech as a racial slur?

I'm just exercising my lights !
Exercise those rights, then, but recognize that I have every right to do so as well. The only limit is the point when free speech crosses the line and gets to the point where the tangible harmfulness of the statement is too much to justify the right. You definitely cross that line.
"Every time I hear the phrase 'Christian nation' I run to my car and blast a Slayer album at full volume." - Me
Old 05-17-2007, 07:26 PM   #136 (permalink)
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"Seems to me that if Nature's God is capitalized, he's acknowledging that there is a God above nature. But you go ahead and perceive as you choose." vh
Don't misconstrue the capitalization. You'll find such capitalizations, seemingly random to the modern reader, were quite common back then, and are numerous in writings by our Founders.

Apart from that:
"Words mean things." Rush Limbaugh

There's no point in quibbling.

What is supernatural, and what is natural are two different, mutually exclusive things.
Anything that is one can NOT possibly be the other.

When Jefferson (no reckless wordsmith he*) says "Nature's God", and not "Supernatural god", I'm willing to take him at his word.

But ignore the wording, and its literal meaning if you wish.
"... go ahead and perceive as you choose."

* The elder Statesman of the U.S. Revolution was, in my opinion, Benjamin Franklin. He proved himself a superbly masterful writer & publisher; somewhat the Ted Turner of his time.
Benjamin Franklin was Thomas Jefferson's editor, when Jefferson wrote the DOI. Considering these historical facts, I believe we can conclude the term "Nature's God" was not casual, or uncontemplated. If Jefferson intended to say "supernatural" he would have.
He didn't. Is there any reason to think he expressed himself self-contradictingly here?
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:35 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Garysher this that you wrote:

How in tarnation did he do that? And what in the heck is traditional marriage and family anyhow? Want to see the Biblical Standard of marriage and family? Look at the families in the Biblical record. God's Chosen People sure did have themselves a time with hundreds of wives and concubines, kids being born and jealousies, strife and friction. Hatred, murder, deceit...all in the family.

I just don't get that Christian mantra...traditional marriage. Traditional Schmaditional is what I say.

OD
Some people get confused about what they read in the Bible. "Hundreds of wives", "concubines" etc. are historical records, they are NOT BEING PROMOTED AS GOALS TO BE OBTAINED!
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests".
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:41 PM   #138 (permalink)
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There Is No Such Thing As "separation Of Church And State"
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests".
Alexander Hamilton, 1787 (After the Constitutional Convention)

"An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun. It is dangerous to your life and health".
Planned Parenthood, 1963
Old 05-18-2007, 10:43 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
There Is No Such Thing As "separation Of Church And State"
Those exact words are not used, but it is stated that no religion should be held preferrable to any other, and thus we have what is called a "wall of separation." If you read the Treaty of Tripoli similar words are used, and the U.S. is stated as not being a nation built upon christianity.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:45 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
Some people get confused about what they read in the Bible. "Hundreds of wives", "concubines" etc. are historical records, they are NOT BEING PROMOTED AS GOALS TO BE OBTAINED!
They're certainly condoned, along with a great deal of other practices, carried out by both humans and God, which do not under any circumstances fit under the category if "moral."
"Every time I hear the phrase 'Christian nation' I run to my car and blast a Slayer album at full volume." - Me
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