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Old 06-20-2007, 01:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonwings View Post
Why should they give up their nukes? Has the US given up theirs? If your neighbor had a cannon in his yard and it was pointed at yours what would you do?

I agree with Moonwings.

If the USA has a nuclear program and has shown to cause pre-emptive, non provocted war, why shouldn't Iran be allowed to have a nuclear program???????

It is hypocritical for us to demand anything of the sort...

in other words: IT IS NOT OUR PLACE ANYMORE!!!!!

Thanks again for this beautiful foreign bullying... er I mean policy.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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How To Fight Iran? Why not how to create a solution with
Iran to prevent farther conflicts? We should leave Iran alone.
I believe that Iran is just reacting to the situation that's
been created in the Muslim world, and Iran has rights just
like the United States government do.

Common senses will tell a people...don't mess with a poison
snake, but our Government is so full of Chit until it do not
give a damn if the snake do bite, and usually once the snake
is distrubed and attack we want to kill all snakes.

We should have NEVER set up forces in the Middle East.
Its wasn't our business, but we made it our business, and
now we are the ones who is suffering the most.

I am NOT talking about our government suffering. I am
speaking about Citizens who have loveones,Sons,Daughters,
Grandkids,etc,etc,etc in the Middle East. We're the ones
who is suffering.
Old 06-20-2007, 05:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post

(France, the UK, Russia, and China-all signatory nations of the NPT-have nuclear weapons too, you know.)
Yes, but they're not talking about bombing Iran.
Old 06-20-2007, 10:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffian View Post
Of course, the world would be better off without nuclear weapons. They mainly serve to make all noncombatants on the planet into targets of opportunity. They are truly the ONLY thing worthy of being called "weapons of mass destruction." But the sad fact is that nuclear fission/fusion is a natural process that can't be copyrighted or controlled. This was amply demonstrated when the Russians quickly became the world's second nuclear power, far ahead of anyone's projections. Anyone who thinks that any government can keep a foreign country from pursuing what it sees as its national interests is being incredibly naive.
Well, anyone who thinks that a country cannot be prevented from developing nuclear weapons in its "national interests" has, of course, automatically excluded that possibility from occuring...even though that possibility, historically speaking, has already occurred.

For example, both Germany and Japan, by means of all-out war, were prevented from developing nuclear weapons in the 1940's.

So, technically speaking, preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons, even if their development is in Iran's national interest, isn't impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffian View Post
Already, the Middle/Near East has two nuclear powers: Israel and Pakistan. Iran with a small nuclear arsenal won't present a credible threat to either nation, and practically none to the USA. But what the Iranians have no doubt noticed, is that NO nuclear armed nation has ever been invaded, unlike their immediate neighbors to both their east and west.
Well, Israel certainly sees a nuclear-armed Iran as a credible threat being that Iran's proxies have had no qualms in the past in performing suicide bombings within Israel.

So, why should a suicide bomber who holds a martyr mentality give a damn about "mutual assured destruction?"

And, perhaps the Iranians failed to notice the Kargil War in Kashmir in 1999 whereby nuclear-armed Pakistan invaded nuclear-armed India.

Last edited by baloney_detector; 06-20-2007 at 11:12 PM.
Old 06-20-2007, 10:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoliticalParalegal View Post
How To Fight Iran? Why not how to create a solution with Iran to prevent farther conflicts? We should leave Iran alone.
I believe that Iran is just reacting to the situation that's
been created in the Muslim world, and Iran has rights just
like the United States government do.
Well, perhaps the world should have continued appeasing Hitler back in the late 1930's. After all, as Hitler claimed, Germany was acting within its...ummm..."rights."

Whether you agree or not, Iran does not have any "right" to have nuclear weapons since Iran is a signatory nation of the NPT. And, if Iran had simply lived up to her obligations stated within that treaty we would most likely not be having this discussion today.
Old 06-20-2007, 11:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffmeister View Post
Yes, but they're not talking about bombing Iran.
So then, in your mind, the US must be the only nuclear-armed nation among five nuclear-armed, NPT signatory nations who must give up her nuclear weapons simply because her government has "talked about bombing Iran" as a possible response to Iran's nuclear activities?

Is this what you are saying?
Old 06-21-2007, 07:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
Well, don't let your personal feelings about Bush hinder your ability to look objectively at Iran's nuclear program.

If you read the actual IAEA reports concerning Iran's activities it is rather easy for one to conclude that Iran has nuclear weapons ambitions.

I have read the snippets available and there is no conclusive evidence this is what Iran is intending. However, there is a LOT of evidence this is what the US is pushing.


First of all, would you mind posting any evidence at all that supports the hypothesis that the US has ever supplied Israel with nuclear weapons? Thanks, in advance.

The Release of Mordechai Vanunu and US Role in Israel's Nuclear Arsenal - by Stephen Zunes

Certainly you would think complicity was the supplying. While a rumor, such as the WMDs in Iraq were before the illegal invasion, providing parts for the construction has certainly been done from the advancement of the 200 nuclear heads in the country.

Secondly, why single out the US regarding nuclear weapons? The UK, France, Russia, and China also have nuclear weapons...and all of these nations also have concerns regarding Iran's nuclear program to varying degrees.

The US is strongly opposing the "rights" of other nations, such as India and Iran, to develop their own nuclear weapons while housing the biggest military complex supplier of weapons to other nations. This hypocrisy screams in the face of the world. I live in the US. The hypocrisy of this administration affects my life.

Lastly, YES, the US CAN tell Iran to not develop nuclear weapons even though the US has nuclear weapons herself since Iran, like the US, is a signatory nation of the NPT. Of course, there is somewhat vague language in that same treaty that affirms the desire that all nuclear-armed states disarm. And, perhaps Iran does have a case, so to speak, if it argues that the nuclear-armed nations must disarm. But this argument doesn't give Iran any legal right to disregard her own obligations stated within the NPT.

NO, the US CANNOT tell anyone what to do. They are sovereign nations with rulers of their own. At best, the US can NEGOTIATE on PEACEFUL terms what they would LIKE to see happen. We are not God, no matter how many times Bush says God talks to him

Well, regarding Iraq, isn't it always much easier to look back in history in order to conclude whether or not a mistake has been made?

Actually, regarding Iraq, the evidence of lies and deceptions have been exposed. The history is there and has been laid out the past 4 years. I'm surprised you haven't run across it. It's been published many times. There were no WMDs and the CIA told Bush that repeatedly.

And, if or when Iran has nuclear weapons, the battlefield, so to speak, could very likely be within the US...being that the US is "The Great Satan."

WHEN Iraq gets nuclear weapons it will no doubt be the blood shed from the hands of the US and its failed Middle Eastern policies under Bush
Old 06-21-2007, 09:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
So then, in your mind, the US must be the only nuclear-armed nation among five nuclear-armed, NPT signatory nations who must give up her nuclear weapons simply because her government has "talked about bombing Iran" as a possible response to Iran's nuclear activities?

Is this what you are saying?
I'd like to see ALL nations give up nuclear weapons. It seems pretty hypocritical for one nation to say "it's all right for us to have them, but you can't."
Old 06-21-2007, 09:23 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffmeister View Post
I'd like to see ALL nations give up nuclear weapons. It seems pretty hypocritical for one nation to say "it's all right for us to have them, but you can't."
Personally speaking, I too would like to live in a world without nuclear weapons.

But, I'd rather be considered a hypocrite than to live in a far more more dangerous world whereby all nations are allowed to have nuclear weapons since a few nations possess them.
Old 06-21-2007, 10:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Numor View Post
I have read the snippets available and there is no conclusive evidence this is what Iran is intending. However, there is a LOT of evidence this is what the US is pushing.
Well then, may I suggest that you extensively read up on this topic rather than just read some "snippets?"

A good place to start would be here:

Iran Watch - tracking Iran's mass destruction weapon capabilities

(This site also has the actual IAEA reports.)

And, how would you define the phrase "conclusive evidence?"

(Mind you, a country doesn't necessarily have to possess an actual and verified nuclear bomb in order for it to be considered as having "nuclear weapons ambitions.")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Numor View Post
Certainly you would think complicity was the supplying. While a rumor, such as the WMDs in Iraq were before the illegal invasion, providing parts for the construction has certainly been done from the advancement of the 200 nuclear heads in the country.
But, providing covert assistance in developing nuclear weapons isn't the same thing as providing nuclear weapons, now is it?

Care to restate your conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Numor View Post
The US is strongly opposing the "rights" of other nations, such as India and Iran, to develop their own nuclear weapons while housing the biggest military complex supplier of weapons to other nations. This hypocrisy screams in the face of the world. I live in the US. The hypocrisy of this administration affects my life.
Would you mind detailing how a country's development of nuclear weapons is a "right?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Numor View Post
NO, the US CANNOT tell anyone what to do. They are sovereign nations with rulers of their own. At best, the US can NEGOTIATE on PEACEFUL terms what they would LIKE to see happen. We are not God, no matter how many times Bush says God talks to him
Well, since Iran is a signatory nation of the NPT, why can't the US, by means of the UN, tell Iran what to do regarding her nuclear program...especially since Iran has been found in violation of her obligations stated within the NPT?

I mean, if Iran doesn't want to be told what it can and cannot do regarding her nuclear program, then why should she be a signatory nation of the NPT?

And, what real policing power would the UN hold if there aren't penalties for violations of international treaties?

(Evidently, the UN found Iran's hand in the nuclear weapon "cookie jar," so to speak. So, even though Iran is a signatory nation of the NPT, she can do whatever she wants to do since she is a "sovereign" nation? Is this what you are saying?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally Numor View Post
WHEN Iraq gets nuclear weapons it will no doubt be the blood shed from the hands of the US and its failed Middle Eastern policies under Bush
Ummm...I think you meant to say "Iran" instead of "Iraq" in your last statement.

So, if or when an Iranian-produced nuclear weapon goes off in Tel Aviv or elsewhere, it would be the US's (or Bush's) fault?

Is this what you are saying?
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