My prediction:... - Page 3

baloney_detector · 09-13-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

How would you classify the US dealings with N Korea, or Libya?

Did they behave like Churchill or Chamberlain?

Regarding Libya, I think the US has acted more as a Churchill. That regime, I would add, has also acted pragmaticaly over the past few years which has helped ease tensions between it and the US.

Regarding North Korea, I think the US has acted more as a Chamberlain. The one thing I think that has kept the US from taking a more firmer stance with North Korea is that they tend to keep themselves isolated...unlike, say, Iran. I don't think we have heard the last of North Korea's "nuclear issues," however.

baloney_detector · 09-13-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

BD, you ought to work for the CIA.

Naah...I just like history.

And I think that current events in the Middle East are rather fascinating, from a historical perspective.

And I've read a lot about Iran over the years.

I'd be curious, though, about what the CIA knows about Iran that is classified.

highway80west · 09-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baloney_detector

Naah...I just like history.

And I think that current events in the Middle East are rather fascinating, from a historical perspective.

And I've read a lot about Iran over the years.

I'd be curious, though, about what the CIA knows about Iran that is classified.

Oh, more than we ever will.

nuttyjoe · 09-13-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

BD, you ought to work for the CIA.

I was thinking more of the State Department for BD. He seems to understand, as our State Department does not; that to show weakness before these "thug regimes" does not help the peace process along- it only invites more behavior of the sort that caused the problem in the first place. But it can never stop the behavior!
There was a line from the movie "Air Force One" that fits perfectly here: "If you give a mouse a cookie; he's going to want a glass of milk".

highway80west · 09-13-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuttyjoe

I was thinking more of the State Department for BD. He seems to understand, as our State Department does not; that to show weakness before these "thug regimes" does not help the peace process along- it only invites more behavior of the sort that caused the problem in the first place. But it can never stop the behavior!
There was a line from the movie "Air Force One" that fits perfectly here: "If you give a mouse a cookie; he's going to want a glass of milk".

The problem I can see with the State Dept. is that they are so technical, that they can just sort of ignore anything that BD might say. The administration and even the State Dept. need to be straightened out.

I guess the State Dept. has enough problems dealing with the volatile Middle East. Like, who can they really trust. Start with Kuwait, for example.

As for the mouse, whatever happened to cheese?

nuttyjoe · 09-13-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

The problem I can see with the State Dept. is that they are so technical, that they can just sort of ignore anything that BD might say. The administration and even the State Dept. need to be straightened out.

I guess the State Dept. has enough problems dealing with the volatile Middle East. Like, who can they really trust. Start with Kuwait, for example.

As for the mouse, whatever happened to cheese?

Two things H80. First, the word "trust" in American foreign policy is better termed as " in our best interests". We cannot make that distinction.
Second, as to the mouse and the cheese; I think Harvard business School has a saying that uses the mouse and cheese. but, having not attended it; I would probably make a fool of myself trying to quote it.

onthefence · 09-14-2007, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuttyjoe

I was thinking more of the State Department for BD. He seems to understand, as our State Department does not; that to show weakness before these "thug regimes" does not help the peace process along- it only invites more behavior of the sort that caused the problem in the first place. But it can never stop the behavior!
There was a line from the movie "Air Force One" that fits perfectly here: "If you give a mouse a cookie; he's going to want a glass of milk".

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

The problem I can see with the State Dept. is that they are so technical, that they can just sort of ignore anything that BD might say. The administration and even the State Dept. need to be straightened out.

I guess the State Dept. has enough problems dealing with the volatile Middle East. Like, who can they really trust. Start with Kuwait, for example.

As for the mouse, whatever happened to cheese?

"If you give a mouse a cookie" is a children's book

this was a favorite of my kids

see if you can pass the quiz

If You Give a Mouse a Cookie Quiz

tyreay · 09-14-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baloney_detector

Hmmm..."peace talks with Iran"...aye?

Do you honestly believe this would bear fruit?

Will these talks get Iran to fully cooperate with the UN regarding her nuclear program?

Will these talks get Iran to end her destabilizing activities in Lebanon, Iraq, and Afganistan?

Will these talks get Iran to end her proxy attacks on US forces/citizens?

(The deadliest terrorist attack on US citizens in modern times before 9/11 was the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing which was sponsered by Iran.)

While it might be a hopeful belief that such "talks" will bear fruit, I seriously have my doubts given the understanding that the US has tried about 28 years of on-again, off-again "talks" with Iran through various third-parties.

(It should be interesting to note that an ex-Mexican government official went to Tehran twice in the past two years for "talks" with Iran on the US's behalf only to be sent back home each time with the message, "We have nothing to discuss.")

Thats because we won't go ourselves and actually try and make an agreement work. The whole middle east(except maybe Qatar, Israel, and the Saudis) think we are a bunch of scammers who are just there for oil (which I sure can't argue with). We wouldn't even talk to them ourselves. How would you view this if you were them? Don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for Irans Government. My point is simple. If we act like bullies we'll be considered bullies. We need to have the level headedness of someone applying logic, reason and learned experience, without pre-conceived notions and hate to actually have any kind of effect whatsoever>
Only an honest attempt from both sides will show if this is a workable solution. The chances, well, I wouldn't put any money on it.

nuttyjoe · 09-14-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onthefence

"If you give a mouse a cookie" is a children's book

this was a favorite of my kids

see if you can pass the quiz

If You Give a Mouse a Cookie Quiz

It was also one one my son's favorite books.I had just remembered the line I quoted earlier because I had watched "Air Force One" the night before.

baloney_detector · 09-14-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuttyjoe

I was thinking more of the State Department for BD. He seems to understand, as our State Department does not; that to show weakness before these "thug regimes" does not help the peace process along- it only invites more behavior of the sort that caused the problem in the first place. But it can never stop the behavior!
There was a line from the movie "Air Force One" that fits perfectly here: "If you give a mouse a cookie; he's going to want a glass of milk".

I think for 28 years the US government, including the State Department, has misunderstood (or ignored) the nature of the Iranian regime.

In short, they aren't interested in what we could rationally offer them in any diplomatic sense.

And, offering them carrots (or cookies) in exchange for them changing their behavior, of which they have no intention of changing, only makes them look at the US in disgust...even though they will happily walk away with the carrot while giving nothing in return.

And, until the US government as a whole realizes that it needs to treat the Iranian regime as the totalitarian and evil government that it is, and treats them with the same forcefulness that the US treated Nazi Germany during WWII and the Soviet Union during the Cold War, they simply aren't going to change their behavior.

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