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Old 02-16-2006, 03:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Also many of those invasions were during the time where the United States was paranoid was Communism. The United states went to great measures to overthrow any leftist leader who may have represted a communistic rule. Even though the result wasn't much better when they put in Dictators who used their military to kill innocent civilians. But at the time our only real threat was Communism and we were very successful in almost getting rid of it all together.

Replace "communism" with "terrorism" and you got the new fear baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Communism is still a threat to our way of life but I do agree that we are going about this terrorism thing the same way we went about getting rid of Communism. The United States is going through drastic measures to make sure that neither terrorism, Communism, whateverism... will not effect our way of life. But you have to think, what extent are we willing to go to get rid of the threat? As far as this war goes I am against it, if anything we are causing more of a threat on a level of more personal attacks. However, on the plus side we are a step closer in promoting democracy which is much better than the dictatorship Saddam ruled under.
Godbless, Tadpole.

“I am a Republican. I\'m loyal to the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. And I believe that my party, in some ways, has strayed from those principles, particularly on the issue of fiscal discipline.”

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Old 02-16-2006, 04:28 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Also many of those invasions were during the time where the United States was paranoid was Communism. The United states went to great measures to overthrow any leftist leader who may have represted a communistic rule. Even though the result wasn't much better when they put in Dictators who used their military to kill innocent civilians. But at the time our only real threat was Communism and we were very successful in almost getting rid of it all together.

Replace "communism" with "terrorism" and you got the new fear baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Communism is still a threat to our way of life but I do agree that we are going about this terrorism thing the same way we went about getting rid of Communism. The United States is going through drastic measures to make sure that neither terrorism, Communism, whateverism... will not effect our way of life. But you have to think, what extent are we willing to go to get rid of the threat? As far as this war goes I am against it, if anything we are causing more of a threat on a level of more personal attacks. However, on the plus side we are a step closer in promoting democracy which is much better than the dictatorship Saddam ruled under.


THe point is when this terrorism thing has run its course there will be yet another fear that we will be fed. Probably China...
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 02-16-2006, 01:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Also many of those invasions were during the time where the United States was paranoid was Communism. The United states went to great measures to overthrow any leftist leader who may have represted a communistic rule. Even though the result wasn't much better when they put in Dictators who used their military to kill innocent civilians. But at the time our only real threat was Communism and we were very successful in almost getting rid of it all together.

Replace "communism" with "terrorism" and you got the new fear baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Communism is still a threat to our way of life but I do agree that we are going about this terrorism thing the same way we went about getting rid of Communism. The United States is going through drastic measures to make sure that neither terrorism, Communism, whateverism... will not effect our way of life. But you have to think, what extent are we willing to go to get rid of the threat? As far as this war goes I am against it, if anything we are causing more of a threat on a level of more personal attacks. However, on the plus side we are a step closer in promoting democracy which is much better than the dictatorship Saddam ruled under.


THe point is when this terrorism thing has run its course there will be yet another fear that we will be fed. Probably China...
I guess you can go as far as to say China is somewhat of a fear. China's population and economy is growing rapidly and let's not forget that we are not allies by any stretch of the imagination. Still I think we have more to fear from North Korea than China.
Godbless, Tadpole.

“I am a Republican. I\'m loyal to the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. And I believe that my party, in some ways, has strayed from those principles, particularly on the issue of fiscal discipline.”

-John McCain

"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

-Jamie Raskin
Old 02-16-2006, 01:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
Also many of those invasions were during the time where the United States was paranoid was Communism. The United states went to great measures to overthrow any leftist leader who may have represted a communistic rule. Even though the result wasn't much better when they put in Dictators who used their military to kill innocent civilians. But at the time our only real threat was Communism and we were very successful in almost getting rid of it all together.

Replace "communism" with "terrorism" and you got the new fear baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Communism is still a threat to our way of life but I do agree that we are going about this terrorism thing the same way we went about getting rid of Communism. The United States is going through drastic measures to make sure that neither terrorism, Communism, whateverism... will not effect our way of life. But you have to think, what extent are we willing to go to get rid of the threat? As far as this war goes I am against it, if anything we are causing more of a threat on a level of more personal attacks. However, on the plus side we are a step closer in promoting democracy which is much better than the dictatorship Saddam ruled under.


THe point is when this terrorism thing has run its course there will be yet another fear that we will be fed. Probably China...
I guess you can go as far as to say China is somewhat of a fear. China's population and economy is growing rapidly and let's not forget that we are not allies by any stretch of the imagination. Still I think we have more to fear from North Korea than China.

Even if there is no need to be afraid a fear will be found. It is the American way.
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 02-16-2006, 03:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hevusa
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Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
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Originally Posted by hevusa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
Also many of those invasions were during the time where the United States was paranoid was Communism. The United states went to great measures to overthrow any leftist leader who may have represted a communistic rule. Even though the result wasn't much better when they put in Dictators who used their military to kill innocent civilians. But at the time our only real threat was Communism and we were very successful in almost getting rid of it all together.

Replace "communism" with "terrorism" and you got the new fear baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Communism is still a threat to our way of life but I do agree that we are going about this terrorism thing the same way we went about getting rid of Communism. The United States is going through drastic measures to make sure that neither terrorism, Communism, whateverism... will not effect our way of life. But you have to think, what extent are we willing to go to get rid of the threat? As far as this war goes I am against it, if anything we are causing more of a threat on a level of more personal attacks. However, on the plus side we are a step closer in promoting democracy which is much better than the dictatorship Saddam ruled under.


THe point is when this terrorism thing has run its course there will be yet another fear that we will be fed. Probably China...
I guess you can go as far as to say China is somewhat of a fear. China's population and economy is growing rapidly and let's not forget that we are not allies by any stretch of the imagination. Still I think we have more to fear from North Korea than China.

Even if there is no need to be afraid a fear will be found. It is the American way.
Living in a state of fear is better than living in a state of denial.
Godbless, Tadpole.

“I am a Republican. I\'m loyal to the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. And I believe that my party, in some ways, has strayed from those principles, particularly on the issue of fiscal discipline.”

-John McCain

"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

-Jamie Raskin
Old 02-16-2006, 04:21 PM   #26 (permalink)
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And what makes you think the majority of Americans aren't in denial?
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Old 02-16-2006, 04:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hevusa
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Originally Posted by hevusa
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Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
Also many of those invasions were during the time where the United States was paranoid was Communism. The United states went to great measures to overthrow any leftist leader who may have represted a communistic rule. Even though the result wasn't much better when they put in Dictators who used their military to kill innocent civilians. But at the time our only real threat was Communism and we were very successful in almost getting rid of it all together.

Replace "communism" with "terrorism" and you got the new fear baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Communism is still a threat to our way of life but I do agree that we are going about this terrorism thing the same way we went about getting rid of Communism. The United States is going through drastic measures to make sure that neither terrorism, Communism, whateverism... will not effect our way of life. But you have to think, what extent are we willing to go to get rid of the threat? As far as this war goes I am against it, if anything we are causing more of a threat on a level of more personal attacks. However, on the plus side we are a step closer in promoting democracy which is much better than the dictatorship Saddam ruled under.


THe point is when this terrorism thing has run its course there will be yet another fear that we will be fed. Probably China...
I guess you can go as far as to say China is somewhat of a fear. China's population and economy is growing rapidly and let's not forget that we are not allies by any stretch of the imagination. Still I think we have more to fear from North Korea than China.

Even if there is no need to be afraid a fear will be found. It is the American way.
Living in a state of fear is better than living in a state of denial.

Being realistic and educated is better than living in fear or denial.
--- help me Instant Runoff Voting, you're my only hope ---

There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.
Old 02-16-2006, 06:06 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
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And it only lists a small amount of state terrorism under much of those countries including the United States. But you are right in that state terrorism creates the Bin Ladens. But that's exactly what this administration needs to get through their heads. Instead their simplistic agenda calls for retaliation and more state terrorism in 'response' to the Bin Ladens. I think it even got to an extent to where Bush's excuse for staying in Iraq was to 'avenge the US lives lost during the Iraq war.' Even our own government silently admits in documents that global terrorism grew significantly as a result of Bush's 'war on terror.' Bush has done more for global al-Qaeda recruiting than any other person in history. An eye for an eye indeed does make the whole world blind. This is why you see peace protests, because its the only thing that will save us from the inevitable.
As Noam Chomsky puts it, in order to decrease the occurances of terrorism in the world, we [the US] would need to cease employing it.

A statement, although paraphrased, which I agree with completely. We can't eliminate terrorism completely, however, by leading by example would serve to drastically reduce the instances of terrorism, much of which is done to a much higher degree than what 9/11 ever did.

Good opening post.
\"If the left is understood to include \'Bolshevism,\' then I would flatly dissociate myself from the left. Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism, in my opinion, for reasons I\'ve discussed.\" - Noam Chomsky

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Old 02-16-2006, 06:13 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The article cites as example of state terrorism of the USA as:

1. Supporting Israel.
2. Supporting the Contras
3. Dropping the atomic bomb

That's it. Not an impressive list, certainly nothing which ought to tolerate as valid inspiration for others to fly planes into office towers and blow up embassies.
Just because the article cites those reasons (I'm assuming due to space constraints) doesn't mean other examples don't exist.

The case of Nicaragua for instance, on a per capita basis, devastated that country - it's not through healing. I can't remember the numbers but again, on a per capita basis on how we terrorized that country, was many times fold what we witnessed on 9/11. And that's but one example.

Our terror support for Israel's policies towards the Palestinians are not only barbaric and immoral (not to mention illegal per US and international law) but extremely hypocritical. We expect the militants on the Palestinians side to cease their terrorism yet continue to supply the fourth mightiest army with weapons and aid with which to expel a mostly armless people. That's beyond chutzpah.

With regard to using nuclear weapons, well that's self evident the barbarity and terrorism employed on hundreds of thousands of people. Not to mention the firebombings in other Japanese and European cities that killed countless civilians.

If we were to apply the principles of Nuremburg as a truism, many allied commanders and leaders would be hanged as well.

Or as Noam Chomsky aptly puts it:

"If the Nuremberg laws were applied today, then every Post-War American president would have to be hanged."
\"If the left is understood to include \'Bolshevism,\' then I would flatly dissociate myself from the left. Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism, in my opinion, for reasons I\'ve discussed.\" - Noam Chomsky

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Old 02-16-2006, 06:18 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Well like I've said before, it only lists a small fraction of what a lot of those countries have done. Esspecially under the United States. It completely ignores a lot of the state sponsering of certain terrorist organizations and individuals, a lot of state sponsering of genocidal dictatorships overseas, and esspecially in Central/South America.
Have you ever seen the movie Missing? It's a good flick. I took a course about Latin American history and our professor showed us how many times we invaded every part of Central and Latin America.

Its now proven that we were directly responsible for what happened in Chile and how Salvador Allende was overthrown so we could try to prevent communism. Because of U.S. intervention many innocent civilians were gunned down.
Not to mention our support for Augusto Pinochet, the champion of free market economics, as well as murderous campaigns to acheive his nefarious goals. Another dictator sponsored by the US.

Now Chile has elected a former polictical prisoner as her leader (Michelle Bachelet) who is a socialist and has demonstrated that she has a high regard for democratic ideals and principles. Good thing for Chile after the nightmare of Pinochet.
\"If the left is understood to include \'Bolshevism,\' then I would flatly dissociate myself from the left. Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of socialism, in my opinion, for reasons I\'ve discussed.\" - Noam Chomsky

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