Originally Posted by Friendindeed

Wrong.
The only change I fear is senseless change done for reasons of political correctness, where good things get trashed by people who have no clue what should be valued, just for the sake of change.
If fear of loss is a component in conservatism, chronic discontent is a component in liberalism.

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

It sure as hell is progress. All those things are byproducts of that which is not progress, and that which many on both the right and left hold so dear: money. Drugs reach unsuspecting victims for the benifit of profit, as do guns and usually even the shooter's motive. The social inequality is bad, and the few top percent up on their hills cast a shadow onto the middle class and the poor, sending them into dissaray and relentless dystopia. Liberalism, but more specifically, socialism looks to the progress of such problems.

Even so, those things are much better than public executions. They're better than a relentless despot reigning over the unsespecting populace left in ignorance. It is better than thousands perhaps millions being sacraficed for ignorance and superstition; it is better than ruthless armies clashing together over what prophet said what about what man-invented God. Its better than sending millions of people of a certain race into death chambers or work camps. It is better than the relentless and inhuman slave labor from peasantry being cast down to self-proclaimed nobility, to serfdom, all the way to millions of workers being paid five cents a week so that a few can recieve record-breaking profits in their "always cheap" supermarkets. It is better than the thought of a possible prevailing of ignorance and supersition over the Enlightenment and scientific revolutions.

All history tells us that we are on a path to progression, and whether that progression takes the name of liberalism, socialism, democracy, republicanism, or protestant; if you look thoughout all of modern history, "liberalism" in the sense of change of the old into the new, has served as the advent of humanism and wellbeing. And all throughout history, this liberalism has had opposition; those that don't want to change because they're too content or believe they're content with the current system. But if it is one thing that history tells us, this progression has been on its path for hundreds of years and is not stopping. Whether you like it or not, eventually scientists are going to use the benifits of stem cell research to cure many different horrible diseases saving millions of lives. Whether you like it or not, there will be religious equality, science and truth will out-value religious supersition. Whether you like it or not, there will be social equality. Whether you like it or not, there will eventually be the basics for decent human life for all. Whether you like it or not, there will no longer be the exploitation of the masses for the benifit and profit of a few.

Originally Posted by alias

I noticed your James Madison quote. How do you like this one?

"We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

- James Madison

Originally Posted by hkbajwa

See the reason i asked is because in my world "liberal" doesn't signify a particular political afilliation, but rather a belief system. As a liberal you seek to weed out those things that are detrimental and try to solve it by applying NEW solutions. Conservatives on the other hand while having the same goal of weeding out detrimental things, seek to do it by reducing the rate of change and/or by taking a step back in social evolution, because the past always seems to hold the right answers.

Originally Posted by hjbwka

Personally i disagree with the conservative method. The reaosn being that while i agree that much is to be learnt from ou past, past solutions are not applicable to topday's problems. And i think it has been proven throughout history...

Originally Posted by Friendindeed

I felt the same way when I was a young man. You find out as you go along that they are applicable.
"Nothing changes under the sun".
Technology makes exterior changes, but human nature the full range of it does not change in any way we can see in the brief span of time, etc.

Originally Posted by foundit66

Personally, I don't like lies at all. And that quote IS a lie...

http://www.bigissueground.com/atheis...isquotes.shtml