Defending the Truth
Articles | Interviews | Politicians | Groups | Arcade | Experience | Donate
  Defending the Truth > Debate Politics > Global Politics

Global Politics Debate US and International politics here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2006, 06:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senator
 
Katczinsky's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,687
Country:
Points: 14,509, Level: 78
Points: 14,509, Level: 78 Points: 14,509, Level: 78 Points: 14,509, Level: 78
Level up: 15%, 341 Points needed
Level up: 15% Level up: 15% Level up: 15%
Activity: 11%
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
Send a message via AIM to Katczinsky
Katczinsky is offline
Reply With Quote
Veterans of America Feel the Limitations of Free Speech
Busted for wearing a peace T-shirt; has this country gone completely insane?

Mike Ferner | July 5 2006

Friday afternoon, drinking a cup of coffee while sitting in the Jesse Brown V.A. Medical Center on Chicago's south side, a Veterans Administration cop walked up to me and said, "Okay, you've had your 15 minutes, it's time to go."

"Huh?" I asked intelligently, not quite sure what he was talking about.

"You can't be in here protesting," Officer Adkins said, pointing to my Veterans For Peace shirt.

"Well, I'm not protesting, I'm having a cup of coffee," I returned, thinking that logic would convince Adkins to go back to his earlier duties of guarding against serious terrorists.

Flipping his badge open, he said, "No, not with that shirt. You're protesting and you have to go."

Beginning to get his drift, I said firmly, "Not before I finish my coffee."

He insisted that I leave, but still not quite believing my ears, I tried one more approach to reason.

"Hey, listen. I'm a veteran. This is a V.A. facility. I'm sitting here not talking to anybody, having a cup of coffee. I'm not protesting and you can't kick me out."

"You'll either go or we'll arrest you," Adkins threatened.

"Well, you'll just have to arrest me," I said, wondering what strange land I was now living in.

You know the rest. Handcuffed, led away to the facility's security office, past people with surprised looks on their faces, read my rights, searched, and written up.

The officer who did the formalities, Eric Ousley, was professional in his duties. When I asked him if he was a vet, it turned out he had been a hospital corpsman in the Navy. We exchanged a couple sea stories. He uncuffed me early. And he allowed as to how he would only charge me with disorderly conduct, letting me go on charges of criminal trespass and weapons possession -- a pocket knife -- which he said would have to be destroyed (something I rather doubt since it was a nifty Swiss Army knife with not only a bottle opener, but a tweezers and a toothpick).

After informing me I could either pay the $275 fine on the citation or appear in court, Ousley escorted me off the premises, warning me if I returned with "that shirt" on, I'd be arrested and booked into jail.

I'm sure I could go back to officers Adkins' and Ousleys' fiefdom with a shirt that said, "Nuke all the hajis," or "Show us your tits," or any number of truly obscene things and no one would care. Just so it's not "that shirt" again.

And just for the record? I'm not paying the fine. I'll see Adkins and Ousley and Dubya's Director of the Dept. of Veterans Affairs, if he wants to show up, in United States District Court on the appointed date. And if there's a Chicago area attorney who'd like to take the case, I'd really like to sue them -- from Dubya on down. I have to believe that this whole country has not yet gone insane, just the government. This kind of behavior can't be tolerated. It must be challenged.

I was at the Jesse Brown V.A. Medical Center because I'm participating in the Voices for Creative Nonviolence's 30-day, 320-mile "Walk for Justice," from Springfield to North Chicago, Illinois, to reclaim funding for the common good and away from war.

Thanks to infowars.com
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72

Last edited by Katczinsky; 07-05-2006 at 06:03 PM.
Sponsored Links
Old 07-05-2006, 08:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Do you suppose he could go into a public school, wearing the exact same T-shirt, and do his little "protest"?
Old 07-05-2006, 09:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,659
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Yeah, let him walk into public school with a T-shirt that says "I love Jesus" and see how far he gets. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Sound familiar?
Old 07-05-2006, 09:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,659
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Yeah, let him walk into public school with a T-shirt that says "I love Jesus" and see how far he gets. You don't mind government control when it's a government school but you cry when the same thing happens in a government hospital. I think there's a word for that.
Old 07-05-2006, 09:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,836
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Do you suppose he could go into a public school, wearing the exact same T-shirt, and do his little "protest"?
What great conservatives we have around here....

Wasn't there a thread talking about liberals curbing freedoms of speech?

And here we have two conservatives who don't give a crap about somebody BEING ARRESTED FOR WEARING A "Veterans For Peace" T-SHIRT.

The hypocrisy is amazing!
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 07-05-2006, 09:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,659
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
What great conservatives we have around here....

Wasn't there a thread talking about liberals curbing freedoms of speech?

And here we have two conservatives who don't give a crap about somebody BEING ARRESTED FOR WEARING A "Veterans For Peace" T-SHIRT.

The hypocrisy is amazing!
When little kids in government school are allowed to wear "I love Jesus" T-shirts, then veterans can wear peace shirts in government hospitals. Okay?
Old 07-05-2006, 11:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senator
 
Katczinsky's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,687
Country:
Points: 14,509, Level: 78
Points: 14,509, Level: 78 Points: 14,509, Level: 78 Points: 14,509, Level: 78
Level up: 15%, 341 Points needed
Level up: 15% Level up: 15% Level up: 15%
Activity: 11%
Activity: 11% Activity: 11% Activity: 11%
Send a message via AIM to Katczinsky
Katczinsky is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Alias, you have it wrong. Kids are perfectly fine and are allowed to wear religious based shirts. Otherwise would be a violation upon their freedom of expression (unless of coarse the banning of such shirts is imparitive to the bahavior and functionality of the school, and then the school is given the right to ban such things; hence uniforms and such). Its just when the school puts up pictures of Jesus or crosses is when it is violating the sepeartion of church and state. It is only when the public school is sponsering religious favoritism. When I was young and when I was a 'good little Christian' I wore my Lutheran shirts to school all the time, and in fact got compliments from the school administration.

But the Veteran wearing his shirt wasn't even protesting in the first place. He was simply wearing a shirt. But even if he was protesting, he is still granted that freedom and right. It just shows who really supports our troops when you condone the arresting of our veterans who are exercising their rights which they put their lives on the line to protect. Foundit is right when he says the hypocrisy is just amazing with some people.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72
Old 07-06-2006, 08:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,836
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
When little kids in government school are allowed to wear "I love Jesus" T-shirts, then veterans can wear peace shirts in government hospitals. Okay?
No. Not okay.
We have separation of church and state.

We don't have "separation of government and opposition to government".

But by your statement, does this mean we can start arresting the "little kids" in government schools who wear such t-shirts?
And can you ACTUALLY SHOW an example of a school child who had problems because he wore a "I love Jesus" t-shirt??

You are using the mentality that two wrongs make it right...
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 07-06-2006, 09:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
What great conservatives we have around here....

Wasn't there a thread talking about liberals curbing freedoms of speech?

And here we have two conservatives who don't give a crap about somebody BEING ARRESTED FOR WEARING A "Veterans For Peace" T-SHIRT.

The hypocrisy is amazing!
You sure jump to conclusions and make an ass of yourself with your ASSumptions.

I asked a question. Why not answer it?
Old 07-06-2006, 09:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
Banned
 
Jefferson's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Omaha Beach
Posts: 7,298
Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92 Points: 21,921, Level: 92
Level up: 58%, 429 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Jefferson is offline
Reply With Quote
 
So... if this guy is NOT protesting, and is NOT at the VA Medical Center for some sort of treatment, WHY IS HE THERE?

NOBODY goes to VA Medical Centers to sit alone and have a "cup of coffee".

The guy is a stinking liar.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 AM.


 Top Political Sites
Poltical Topsites