Defending the Truth

Articles | Interviews | Politicians | Groups | Arcade | Experience | Donate
  Defending the Truth > Debate Politics > Global Politics

Global Politics Debate US and International politics here.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2006, 09:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,844
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
A Country Divided
June 30, 2006 — Members of Congress may not come to the floor armed with pistols as they did in the days leading up to the Civil War, but their words are as toxic as any time since then. And we are — in many ways — a more divided nation than any time since then.

In interviews with political leaders, media analysts, and people in communities around the country, ABC News found what appears to be a new phenomenon: the polarization is feeding on itself. It's not just politicians, business or religious leaders, liberals or conservatives — or the media: It's each of us. And it's alarming.


"The Big Sort" — Surrounding Ourselves With Ourselves

Bill Bishop, a reporter for the Austin-American Statesman newspaper in Texas, conducted a three-year investigation into America's divide. Bishop and statistician Bob Cushing reached back over the last 14 presidential election cycles and counted Republican and Democratic votes in all 3,100 American counties.

The research yielded some startling information. "There's a steady trend line from '76 to 2004 of the country becoming, pulling apart, becoming more politically segregated. We began to see this pattern that we eventually end up calling "The Big Sort," said Bishop.

Montclair, N.J., is one of the many communities across the country that illustrates "the big sort" that Bishop and Cushing observed. A generation ago the community's vote was split 50-50 Democrat - Republican. But the 2004 election was a blowout: 78 percent for John Kerry.

In Essex County where Montclair is situated, the margin of victory has steadily widened in every presidential election since 1976. It's happening across the country. In 2004, the overwhelming majority of counties were decided by margins of 20 percent or more. The number of Americans living in these landslide counties has doubled over the last 30 years. Today, half of all Americans are living in polarized communities.

And to the political scientists who say this notion that we're divided more divided than ever is just an absolute myth, Bishop says: "I would say spend some time in Lubbock, Texas and then spend some time in Cambridge, Massachusetts. You have to look at the street level. You have to look at where people live. It's not states. States are the wrong way to look at how people live. People live in communities. It's at that community level that people are becoming more segregated."

Bishop says part of it is just a natural part of social interactions. "Given a choice, people will choose to read, be among, watch, live with, worship with, vote with, people who are like themselves," he said.


What's Pushing Us Apart?

In "State Of the Union" ABC News conducts two experiments that illustrate the impact of "the big sort." In the first, Cass Sunstein, a University of Chicago law professor, conducts a remarkable experiment for ABC News that demonstrates that like-minded people are pushed to more and more extreme positions when they group together. It has profound and troubling implications for the country. In the second experiment, University of Pennsylvania professor Diana Mutz demonstrates the impact of so-called "shout TV," which is the media manifestation of "the big sort."

She shows that viewers are very likely to misunderstand those who disagree with them when they watch people shouting at each other. And the ongoing civilized debate that is a cornerstone of American democracy can be lost in the process. All of this is accelerated by the internet. About eight million people log on to political blogs, or partisan web journals every day, creating virtual communities of like-minded partisans who demonize each other.

Some politicians, partisans themselves, see the problem but not the solution. Senator Barack Obama, D-Ill., tells Stephanopoulos: "I think that culturally right now we have a system in which we don't have a broad conversation among people who don't agree with each other.

And one of the biggest challenges I think we face as a nation is how do we create those spaces. Supposedly the Senate, the body on which I serve, is supposed to be the greatest deliberative body in the world&It's not happening." Republic North Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham adds: "The best evidence I think of how polarized America has become is that it makes news when Democrats and Republicans do something of substance together and that truly is a shame. We've gone from the Senate being presumed to be above party politics to where the news is we rejected party politics."

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2140483&page=1
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Sponsored Links
Old 07-06-2006, 10:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,665
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
 
Good article. So what is the solution?
Old 07-06-2006, 10:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,844
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Good article. So what is the solution?
The guy who talks about being opposed to anything a liberal thinks, and claims to know what arguments liberals are saying even before they say anything...

THAT guy is asking what the solution is?

How about you start with looking in the mirror and thinking about CHANGE if you're serious...
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 07-06-2006, 10:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,665
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
The guy who talks about being opposed to anything a liberal thinks, and claims to know what arguments liberals are saying even before they say anything...

THAT guy is asking what the solution is?

How about you start with looking in the mirror and thinking about CHANGE if you're serious...

How about we vote out Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Diane Feinstein, Nancy Peolosi, and Harry Reid for starters and replace them with some people who love America and what it stands for?

I went and looked in the mirror. My what a handsome guy. Smart too.
Old 07-06-2006, 10:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,844
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
How about we vote out Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Diane Feinstein, Nancy Peolosi, and Harry Reid for starters and replace them with some people who love America and what it stands for?
You're not looking for a fix.
You're looking for POLITICAL DOMINATION.

Did you even comprehend what the article was about?
Because you are PART OF what it was talking about!

You just can't see that, can you...
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 07-07-2006, 08:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senator
 
Katczinsky's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,629
Country:
Points: 13,712, Level: 76
Points: 13,712, Level: 76 Points: 13,712, Level: 76 Points: 13,712, Level: 76
Level up: 16%, 338 Points needed
Level up: 16% Level up: 16% Level up: 16%
Activity: 18%
Activity: 18% Activity: 18% Activity: 18%
Send a message via AIM to Katczinsky
Katczinsky is offline
 
Political partisanship is a part of the game, and it is inevitable in our society with this two-party dominated system. Even with partisanship, it can still work. Its just that some people take their partisanship further than others. And I'm afriad that that is happening. As communities of like-minded people get together, and the left and right get further segregated, more and more one side misunderstands the other. I personally believe that it isn't a matter of liberals forming their own town, and conservatives forming theirs. I think it is more of a matter of how liberalism takes shape when you live in a multi-cultured place; and therefore you gain greater understanding of different cultures and begin to care about other people rather than just looking after your own.

That is why coastal areas and large cities tend to be more liberal than the rural areas. Small conservative towns tend to block themselves off of the rest of society, or rather other cultures and engage in a deep feeling of xenophobia. I don't have a problem with keeping with your political views and your morals, but what I do have a problem with is people blocking out what people from other backgrounds have to say.

For example, I saw a really interesting documentary called This Divided State, about when Michael Moore was invited to Utah Valley State College. The college rests in a community that is dominantly conservative in Utah. There was a whole controversy about allowing Michael Moore to speak at the college. And in fact, some man attempted at bribing the college into denying Moore the right to speak. The students which had organized his invintation were sued by the very same man. Those students recieved a number of threats including death threats. Despite Michael Moore having the constitutional right to speak his mind, we have a closed community attempting to silence him because they believe he will start a "moral decay" in their community which they believe to be superior to the rest of the country I guess. Its a perfect example of what I was saying and this issue. Rural communities get so disconected from reality that they block out whatever someone from a different background has to say.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72
Old 07-07-2006, 10:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,665
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
You're not looking for a fix.
You're looking for POLITICAL DOMINATION.

Did you even comprehend what the article was about?
Because you are PART OF what it was talking about!

You just can't see that, can you...
You can't see that you are also part of what the article was about can you. Half of America are traditionalists who want America to stay America. The other half are going along with the "progressives". Can't you see that? Look at this forum and you can see that.
Old 07-07-2006, 10:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,665
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky
Political partisanship is a part of the game, and it is inevitable in our society with this two-party dominated system. Even with partisanship, it can still work. Its just that some people take their partisanship further than others. And I'm afriad that that is happening. As communities of like-minded people get together, and the left and right get further segregated, more and more one side misunderstands the other. I personally believe that it isn't a matter of liberals forming their own town, and conservatives forming theirs. I think it is more of a matter of how liberalism takes shape when you live in a multi-cultured place; and therefore you gain greater understanding of different cultures and begin to care about other people rather than just looking after your own.

That is why coastal areas and large cities tend to be more liberal than the rural areas. Small conservative towns tend to block themselves off of the rest of society, or rather other cultures and engage in a deep feeling of xenophobia. I don't have a problem with keeping with your political views and your morals, but what I do have a problem with is people blocking out what people from other backgrounds have to say.

For example, I saw a really interesting documentary called This Divided State, about when Michael Moore was invited to Utah Valley State College. The college rests in a community that is dominantly conservative in Utah. There was a whole controversy about allowing Michael Moore to speak at the college. And in fact, some man attempted at bribing the college into denying Moore the right to speak. The students which had organized his invintation were sued by the very same man. Those students recieved a number of threats including death threats. Despite Michael Moore having the constitutional right to speak his mind, we have a closed community attempting to silence him because they believe he will start a "moral decay" in their community which they believe to be superior to the rest of the country I guess. Its a perfect example of what I was saying and this issue. Rural communities get so disconected from reality that they block out whatever someone from a different background has to say.
I don't care if Michael Moore talks somewhere. I just wish he'd take a bath first.
Old 07-07-2006, 10:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senator
 
foundit66's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,844
Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86 Points: 18,394, Level: 86
Level up: 9%, 456 Points needed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
foundit66 is offline
 
One aspect of the show (I saw it) which is briefly touched on in the article above was how some shows (shout TV) have a segregating effect.

A study was done, and it was noted that people would watch those shows, come out with a stronger conviction and stronger polarization of their view, but be incapable of accurately relaying what the OPPOSITION's view-point was.
I personally found that amazing. To have your opinion re-affirmed by a "debate", but then be unable to state what the other person's opinion/position actually was?

Personally, I can't stand the "shout TV" crap. Nor can I stomach instigators like Michael Moore or Ann Coulter.

Maybe it comes down to a question of whether or not you want "info-tainment", with precious little information, or actual information and actual knowledge.

As some on here demonstrate, they are just looking for an excuse to hold onto their existing beliefs and don't bother to evaluate anything that contradicts it...
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
-- Jon Stewart
"Please don't judge others by your own standards."
-- Garysher
Old 07-07-2006, 11:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
Banned
 
alias's Avatar
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wild Wild West
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,665
Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96 Points: 26,006, Level: 96
Level up: 66%, 344 Points needed
Level up: 66% Level up: 66% Level up: 66%
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
alias is offline
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
One aspect of the show (I saw it) which is briefly touched on in the article above was how some shows (shout TV) have a segregating effect.

A study was done, and it was noted that people would watch those shows, come out with a stronger conviction and stronger polarization of their view, but be incapable of accurately relaying what the OPPOSITION's view-point was.
I personally found that amazing. To have your opinion re-affirmed by a "debate", but then be unable to state what the other person's opinion/position actually was?

Personally, I can't stand the "shout TV" crap. Nor can I stomach instigators like Michael Moore or Ann Coulter.

Maybe it comes down to a question of whether or not you want "info-tainment", with precious little information, or actual information and actual knowledge.

As some on here demonstrate, they are just looking for an excuse to hold onto their existing beliefs and don't bother to evaluate anything that contradicts it...
I just realized your problem in your last sentence. You think conservatives wont change their mind because they refuse to evaluate what the left's ideas are. WRONG.

We have evaluated it and we don't like it. Simple as that. You don't like our ideas and we don't like yours. Learn to live with it, we have.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 AM.


 Top Political Sites
Poltical Topsites