dunno what the hell the kaiser chiefs are doin in american one?!

there the sons of british sea power, all the way.

i have to say tho i dissagree with live8 over principle. i think there gonna make poverty worse by doing what their doing and there isnt a debate about it.

i no this is an american chatroom but there wasnt a topic till i set one up but there was on ridiculous ones like gay mariiage and abortion.
i just hope i can get some sense out of you guys that i cant get here (specially at 3 in the morning)

Okay, several things to cover here... Some are technical, and I am being nit picky...

1) How are they going to make poverty worse?

2) Why do you think Gay Marriage and Abortion are ridiculous subjects? they are serious issues here in the U.S.

3) This is NOT a chatroom.

4) How can you say there isn't any debate about something? Unless of course you are speaking about a certainty, which I don't think your statement was...

Some people consider message boards, "chat rooms". That's OK in my books. By the way, welcome to the boards limey.

I chose these topics simply because they are argued mostly in schools, politics, elections, etc. Other issues not brought up often can go in the US Politics::International Politics.

Hope you have fun on these boards. Feel free to introduce yourself in the "Introduce Yourself" forums.

yes hello thanks for the welcome.

1) i think live 8 will make poverty worse because poor counries arnt in debt because of the evil west as they like to say, there in debt because the money lent for investment is sitting in swiss bank accounts. how would giving these men more money help education programes - it wouldent. aid to governments would prop up bad ones. secondly the 'fair trade' that they advocate is nothing of the sort and is protectionism by anyother name. when people cant afford food putting tariffs up to 'protect' your industry will only make it more expensive. both of these will make poverty worse.

2) i take the fact that gay marrige and abortion are isseues in america. it seems extreamly odd to someone from the outside that issues which are in effect personal morality issues, seem to be being discussed on a basis that the moral values of one group can be imposed on another.
apart from anything else does that not contravene the 'land of the free' sentiment?

3) chatroom message board - virtually the same.

4) no debate in my country - there are no counter arguments put forward outside economics journals. its just a competition between the major news media as to who can pretend to like bob geldof the most. its absolutely pathetic.
anyone who is seen to dissagree with the 'make poverty history' white bands is portrayed as a corporate loveing nazi.

That is an interesting point. I have to ask if you see any solutions to this problem? Or if you have heard anyone else claim a solution?


I absolutely agree with you. I think it is due to brainwashed religious folks unfortunately. It is hard to get them to hold matters of personal morality just that: personal! They invade through the media and our government is being slowly consumed by their egoistic ideals and irrational choices via their vote.

It's not a live and let live society in that sense, which is pretty sad.

the solution that ive hered, was put forward by the sweedish economist Johan norberg. unadulterated free trade.

the freeer goods and ides are allowed to flow the harder it is to sustain a corrupt regime. if Syrians see kuwaities living to a higher standard than they then they begin to ask questions of their regie. the bigger the gap the harder it is to sustain, no matter how corrupt the state.

the second effect of lesoning the role of government in trade is that the endemic corruption that blights the poorest countries, like the congo for example, whould dissipate if there were no officials to be corrupt.

multinationals need to be encouraged not held up as hate figures. in the 20 poorest countries in the world on average they pay 8 times the average wage, and twice the average wage for the same industry. also a brand like nike hasd to maintain a better level of helth and safety to protect their brand image than a local. despite this the 'Make poverty history' group are campaining to set up laws to keep them out etc. its total madness.

Remove barriers to trade, make it clear to the people around the world that it is not the west's policies but their own which make them poor and then watch mugabe try and defend his position.

It seems like your ideas on free trade might backfire; you're not taking the power of a America or class into account.

Opening countries up for free trade won't necessarily make any third-world countries richer; at least not while there are still greedy politicians and businessmen who will rape these countries of their resources and in return sell them genetically modified food which sells for dirt cheap in America. The small percentage of wealthy businessmen in third-world and first-world countries will reap all the profits while the working class suffer because no one is buying what their crops or hard work have produced; everyone is buying up the dirt-cheap GM fruits and vegetables and sweatshop factory-made clothing and etc.

With NAFTA, it's brother CAFTA, the FTAA, the WTO, the IMF, etc.; agreements and organizations such as those have the working class under their boot. Free trade works under certain circumstances, under the circumstances of the world today; developed countries with big capital and organizations who help spread business worldwide to receive more capital, and developing countries with low incomes, cheap labor, and little to protect themselves in regards to government agencies defending the working class (none in my knowledge)--these are perfect conditions for the horrible abuse of free trade.

Assuming that all countries have one class, fair government, and equal resources, free trade is possible, but that's not the situation of the world today.

it is a falacy to believe that

your obviously someone who believes that big buissnes opresses the working class and pays them exploitative wages,
so i will say this
the average foregin firm in the 20 porest countries around the world pays 8 times the average wage, and twice the wage for the same industry. they also have beter working conditions. if thats haveing the working class under their boot then they probobly want to be there.