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Old 07-08-2005, 04:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limey42
your obviously someone who believes that big buissnes opresses the working class and pays them exploitative wages,
so i will say this
the average foregin firm in the 20 porest countries around the world pays 8 times the average wage, and twice the wage for the same industry. they also have beter working conditions. if thats haveing the working class under their boot then they probobly want to be there.
hmm.. i never knew that. where did you get that info??
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Old 07-08-2005, 04:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limey42
your obviously someone who believes that big buissnes opresses the working class and pays them exploitative wages,
so i will say this
the average foregin firm in the 20 porest countries around the world pays 8 times the average wage, and twice the wage for the same industry. they also have beter working conditions. if thats haveing the working class under their boot then they probobly want to be there.
A couple of questions.

1. Where are those numbers from?
2. What are the employment rates? (What good are high paying jobs if no one can get work?)
3. What are the wages relative to the cost of living?
4. What exactly do you mean by "better working conditions"?
When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
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Old 07-08-2005, 05:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewnoise
Quote:
Originally Posted by limey42
your obviously someone who believes that big buissnes opresses the working class and pays them exploitative wages,
so i will say this
the average foregin firm in the 20 porest countries around the world pays 8 times the average wage, and twice the wage for the same industry. they also have beter working conditions. if thats haveing the working class under their boot then they probobly want to be there.
A couple of questions.

1. Where are those numbers from?
2. What are the employment rates? (What good are high paying jobs if no one can get work?)
3. What are the wages relative to the cost of living?
4. What exactly do you mean by "better working conditions"?
I believe exactly what limey is saying, I just do not believe that it makes it right. Those numbers seem completely believable to me. However that's like rescuing a kid whose parents abuse him severely, putting out cigarettes on his skin, and boasting how much better you treat him because all you do is occassionally slap him around a bit for no particular reason. It's still maltreatment, it's just slightly better mal treatment, and the improvement does not make it ok.
Old 07-08-2005, 05:07 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewnoise
Quote:
Originally Posted by limey42
your obviously someone who believes that big buissnes opresses the working class and pays them exploitative wages,
so i will say this
the average foregin firm in the 20 porest countries around the world pays 8 times the average wage, and twice the wage for the same industry. they also have beter working conditions. if thats haveing the working class under their boot then they probobly want to be there.
A couple of questions.

1. Where are those numbers from?
2. What are the employment rates? (What good are high paying jobs if no one can get work?)
3. What are the wages relative to the cost of living?
4. What exactly do you mean by "better working conditions"?
I believe exactly what limey is saying, I just do not believe that it makes it right. Those numbers seem completely believable to me. However that's like rescuing a kid whose parents abuse him severely, putting out cigarettes on his skin, and boasting how much better you treat him because all you do is occassionally slap him around a bit for no particular reason. It's still maltreatment, it's just slightly better mal treatment, and the improvement does not make it ok.
Good point. That is what I was trying to figure out. Who cares if they make more than average if that is still not enough?
When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God
Old 07-08-2005, 05:18 PM   #25 (permalink)
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you forget about the other benefits of free trade. the removal of protectionist tariffs lowers the cost of living to the poorest. when food takes up say 80% of someones income is a tariff of 25% on grain imports helping?

better working conditions is because takeing indonesia as a case study 8 of 10 foreign firms were described as 'exceeding significantly' the working condition standards set by their government. wheareas 7 of 10 native firms did not meat the minimum standard.

i would also say that the introduction of foreign firms is only the start, 10 or 15 years of stability in which foerigners are not hounded can lead countries to the state that the tiger economies are in today. south korea used to have a gdp lower that botswana, now i believe it has 32 times it.
Old 07-08-2005, 05:19 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limey42
your obviously someone who believes that big buissnes opresses the working class and pays them exploitative wages,
so i will say this
the average foregin firm in the 20 porest countries around the world pays 8 times the average wage, and twice the wage for the same industry. they also have beter working conditions. if thats haveing the working class under their boot then they probobly want to be there.
This doesn't add up at all, where did you get this information?

Though it is not the only reason I'm against big business, it does oppress the working class. Mexicans in the borderlands have seen the rise of Maquiladoras (sweat shops) and since they are losing their business to imports and American business and don't have enough money to go to college or train for a career, they're stuck working for American businesses. The same thing is going on in many countries around the world.

They live on minimum wage because that's the most American businesses are willing to pay, they're witnessing the destruction of their cultures and unformity similar to that of what you'd find in America.

And who's living it up in their big, air-conditioned offices while all the workers are crammed into sweatshops because they have no other options?
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
-John Seymour
Old 07-08-2005, 05:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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there in a book by Jojan Norberg.

i would point out that workers are never forced to work for a MNC. to an american that sees wages differantly they may seem to be living on poverty wages but the truth is if you deprive them of these jobs you truely will be condemning people to poverty though what is no more than a western bias
Old 07-08-2005, 06:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limey42
there in a book by Jojan Norberg.

i would point out that workers are never forced to work for a MNC. to an american that sees wages differantly they may seem to be living on poverty wages but the truth is if you deprive them of these jobs you truely will be condemning people to poverty though what is no more than a western bias
I'm aware of the gap between American wages and Mexican wages. By the way, 80,000 Mexicans dropped below the poverty line with the creation of the Maquiladoras.

You must not be hearing my correctly, when American businesses go to other countries, they do it for the reason of cheap labor. In order for American businesses to establish this, there has to be trade agreements between the two governments. When those agreements are made, American businesses are free to create factories and distribute products to the other country. Thus, family businesses stop receiving money because American products are being sold to their customers; as a result, their business fails, and sometimes their only option is to work for the people who destroyed them, because they are the only ones providing jobs.

What I'm saying is that American business should never be there in the first place, because wealth is not distributed properly and they're destroying 9,000 years of culture.

In it's essence, capitalism is a great idea, but as long as greed and corruption exists in man, it's an idea that should be left alone.
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
-John Seymour
Old 07-08-2005, 06:09 PM   #29 (permalink)
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those people who were put out of buissness were put out when the cost of living of their neibours was brought down. they may be going there for cheap wages but those wages will always be above those already offered!

this increase in demand for this labour will push up the price and so the wages as it has in mexico. it does afterall have a significantly higher average wage than a good 2/3rds of the world thanks to this 'exploitation'
Old 07-08-2005, 08:30 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limey42
those people who were put out of buissness were put out when the cost of living of their neibours was brought down. they may be going there for cheap wages but those wages will always be above those already offered!

this increase in demand for this labour will push up the price and so the wages as it has in mexico. it does afterall have a significantly higher average wage than a good 2/3rds of the world thanks to this 'exploitation'
The wages in the Mexican Maquiladoras have been steadily decreasing since 1982. Currently, I believe the workers receive $0.50 an hour, in 1982, it was $1.38. In the borderlands, it costs about five times the current minimum wage to pay for an average family's basic needs. The workers receive absolutely no benefits.
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
-John Seymour
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