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View Poll Results: Renew the Patriot Act?
Yes... 2 13.33%
Yes, but it needs to be toned down. 3 20.00%
Yes, but it needs more power. 0 0%
No! 9 60.00%
Undecided... 1 6.67%
Other (See Below) 0 0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-14-2005, 09:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Fuck that, I'd rather have freedom and have to deal with the threat of terrorists.
I'm sure you'd take that back if you lost someone in a future terrorist attack. I know you've heard this many times but If you are not doing anything wrong or illegal, what's to worry about?? Honestly?

aMFliberal mentioned that around 13 out of 200 convictions were terrorist charges. But isn't that 200 less problems out on the streets??
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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HEHE
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds
Democrats are not guilty when it comes to defending freedoms??

um...taxes

Just one question, is their not one thing you agree with in the Patriot Act? This is the problem with debates between the left and the right, it's either "Yes i'm for it and you're wrong" or, "No i'm not for it and you're wrong".

Why not come to an agreement by debating everything about the Patriot Act to see what needs reform, and what can stay?? That seems more logic to me.
No. I do not know of a single peice of the Patriot Act I agree with. I think I have demonstrated by now that I am pretty good at pointing out when I agree with part of something, and when I hear a good well written well thought out argument, I am likely to change my mind. The problem is that the Patriot Act is a huge heap of hot garbage, and Republicans keep singing about how wonderful it is to have our civil rights violated, and how much safer we are. Fuck that, I'd rather have freedom and have to deal with the threat of terrorists.

I think it's really funny that someone in Nebraska feels as if he's in so much danger...
Well, I dont feel threatened at all in Nebraska but the places I go, I have thoughts. I take many flights to Vegas and California so there is always a possibility.

Also, Don't forget where the President came during the 911 attacks!
Godbless, Tadpole.

“I am a Republican. I\'m loyal to the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. And I believe that my party, in some ways, has strayed from those principles, particularly on the issue of fiscal discipline.”

-John McCain

"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

-Jamie Raskin
Old 07-15-2005, 08:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Fuck that, I'd rather have freedom and have to deal with the threat of terrorists.
I'm sure you'd take that back if you lost someone in a future terrorist attack. I know you've heard this many times but If you are not doing anything wrong or illegal, what's to worry about?? Honestly?

aMFliberal mentioned that around 13 out of 200 convictions were terrorist charges. But isn't that 200 less problems out on the streets??
I did lose someone in 9/11. I lost 2 dear friends. And I've lost other friends since then in the war. And I still say I'd rather have FREEDOM. That's why I put on a uniform everyday.

It may be 200 less problems, but they should not have been found the way they were. A man should not be convicted of fishing without a proper license because he was a terrorism suspect, especially when the basis for that was the color of his skin. The average American breaks 5 laws before lunch, daily. I will always back freedom first. Because the simple fact of the matter is, there is nothing we can do to STOP terrorism, and we can not allow ourselves to continue to live in fear, and sacrifice our freedoms out of that fear. It deeply saddens me that you'd be so willing to betray the ideals this country was founded on in trade for the illusion of safety.
Old 07-15-2005, 08:19 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: HEHE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds
Democrats are not guilty when it comes to defending freedoms??

um...taxes

Just one question, is their not one thing you agree with in the Patriot Act? This is the problem with debates between the left and the right, it's either "Yes i'm for it and you're wrong" or, "No i'm not for it and you're wrong".

Why not come to an agreement by debating everything about the Patriot Act to see what needs reform, and what can stay?? That seems more logic to me.
No. I do not know of a single peice of the Patriot Act I agree with. I think I have demonstrated by now that I am pretty good at pointing out when I agree with part of something, and when I hear a good well written well thought out argument, I am likely to change my mind. The problem is that the Patriot Act is a huge heap of hot garbage, and Republicans keep singing about how wonderful it is to have our civil rights violated, and how much safer we are. Fuck that, I'd rather have freedom and have to deal with the threat of terrorists.

I think it's really funny that someone in Nebraska feels as if he's in so much danger...
Well, I dont feel threatened at all in Nebraska but the places I go, I have thoughts. I take many flights to Vegas and California so there is always a possibility.

Also, Don't forget where the President came during the 911 attacks!
It's amazing to me how well this administration's brain-washing machine has worked on all the conservatives on this site... It's scary... You're all like little Bush propaganda machines... This is begining to remind me of the book 1984... It's terrifying. I think conservatives are the real terrorists in this country, because they are the only ones who truly strike terror in my heart, and they seem to spend all their time terrorizing their fellow citizens...
Old 07-15-2005, 10:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: HEHE
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds
Democrats are not guilty when it comes to defending freedoms??

um...taxes

Just one question, is their not one thing you agree with in the Patriot Act? This is the problem with debates between the left and the right, it's either "Yes i'm for it and you're wrong" or, "No i'm not for it and you're wrong".

Why not come to an agreement by debating everything about the Patriot Act to see what needs reform, and what can stay?? That seems more logic to me.
No. I do not know of a single peice of the Patriot Act I agree with. I think I have demonstrated by now that I am pretty good at pointing out when I agree with part of something, and when I hear a good well written well thought out argument, I am likely to change my mind. The problem is that the Patriot Act is a huge heap of hot garbage, and Republicans keep singing about how wonderful it is to have our civil rights violated, and how much safer we are. Fuck that, I'd rather have freedom and have to deal with the threat of terrorists.

I think it's really funny that someone in Nebraska feels as if he's in so much danger...
Well, I dont feel threatened at all in Nebraska but the places I go, I have thoughts. I take many flights to Vegas and California so there is always a possibility.

Also, Don't forget where the President came during the 911 attacks!
It's amazing to me how well this administration's brain-washing machine has worked on all the conservatives on this site... It's scary... You're all like little Bush propaganda machines... This is begining to remind me of the book 1984... It's terrifying. I think conservatives are the real terrorists in this country, because they are the only ones who truly strike terror in my heart, and they seem to spend all their time terrorizing their fellow citizens...
You continue to say that I have been brain-washed, thats not true, I just choose safety first. To say that Conservatives are the real terrorist is a real 'dumbass' remark if you ask me. I mean I respect your opinion, but to call me a terrorist because I choose safety first is ridiculous.
Godbless, Tadpole.

“I am a Republican. I\'m loyal to the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. And I believe that my party, in some ways, has strayed from those principles, particularly on the issue of fiscal discipline.”

-John McCain

"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

-Jamie Raskin
Old 07-15-2005, 11:33 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: HEHE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
You continue to say that I have been brain-washed, thats not true, I just choose safety first. To say that Conservatives are the real terrorist is a real 'dumbass' remark if you ask me. I mean I respect your opinion, but to call me a terrorist because I choose safety first is ridiculous.
I am not calling you a terrorist, I am calling the people running the show terrorists. I do think you are quite foolish if you think you are getting safety. You are losing your freedoms and getting NOTHING but a dog & pony show in exchange. You are no safer today than you were on 9/10/2001, and to think otherwise is naive.
Old 07-15-2005, 02:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: HEHE
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebraskaboy
You continue to say that I have been brain-washed, thats not true, I just choose safety first. To say that Conservatives are the real terrorist is a real 'dumbass' remark if you ask me. I mean I respect your opinion, but to call me a terrorist because I choose safety first is ridiculous.
I am not calling you a terrorist, I am calling the people running the show terrorists. I do think you are quite foolish if you think you are getting safety. You are losing your freedoms and getting NOTHING but a dog & pony show in exchange. You are no safer today than you were on 9/10/2001, and to think otherwise is naive.
Ok... I will give you a chance to explain this to me. Why am I no safer now then I was on 9/10/2001? We have higher security more surveillance and so on, so just explain this to me.
Godbless, Tadpole.

“I am a Republican. I\'m loyal to the party of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. And I believe that my party, in some ways, has strayed from those principles, particularly on the issue of fiscal discipline.”

-John McCain

"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

-Jamie Raskin
Old 07-15-2005, 03:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidinHighSpeeds
Quote:
Originally Posted by aMFliberal
You've posted this piece before Ridin. We've replied. Again and again, you seem to assume that anyone who is against the Patriot Act is "ok with terrorists attacking our country." That is so completely wrong. It's like the people who assume that you don't support the troops because you don't support the war. Am I glad that the Brooklyn Bridge was not blown up? YES!! Am I glad there is a sweeping "counter terrorism" act that violates our rights? NO.
Nothing, nothing can serve as an exception to the rights we are guaranteed.
I sure have posted this before because it's a good point. What about the left whining about the Patriot Act, again and again? I am trying to defend the Patriot Act whenever it is brought up and the response given to those who oppose say pretty much the same thing, "it violates our rights and you are idiotic".

That was easy.
I didn't call you an idiot Ridin...I don't know where you read that in my post, but I'll paste it again for you:

You've posted this piece before Ridin. We've replied. Again and again, you seem to assume that anyone who is against the Patriot Act is "ok with terrorists attacking our country." That is so completely wrong. It's like the people who assume that you don't support the troops because you don't support the war. Am I glad that the Brooklyn Bridge was not blown up? YES!! Am I glad there is a sweeping "counter terrorism" act that violates our rights? NO.
Nothing, nothing can serve as an exception to the rights we are guaranteed.
But it don't take much to get me by
So just booze me up and get me high
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Old 07-15-2005, 03:56 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I've read these posts a couple times now and I have to say this. I can not defend an act that violates our rights in the Constitution. I don't care what it is for. Yes, The Patriot Act helps, at least somewhat, in protecting the American people. It also allows the government to do things they couldn't do before. That's not because they never got around to it or did not want to until after 9/11. It's because they could not!!! The Republican power seized the opportunity to make this act because the country was in a very sensitive time. The Patriot Act also allows the government to label whoever they want as terrorists and immediately detain them. They do not receive the same legal rights as every other American. Why? Defenders of this act, you answer this question. To be perfectly honest, the American way is higher than any one American person and THAT'S what I'm defending. I will never sacrifice the American way for an American life. People like tadpole, who join the service and fight, they sacrifice THEIR LIVES for the American way. They don't sacrifice the American way for their lives.
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So just booze me up and get me high
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Old 07-15-2005, 06:46 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: HEHE
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
It's amazing to me how well this administration's brain-washing machine has worked on all the conservatives on this site... It's scary... You're all like little Bush propaganda machines... This is begining to remind me of the book 1984... It's terrifying. I think conservatives are the real terrorists in this country, because they are the only ones who truly strike terror in my heart, and they seem to spend all their time terrorizing their fellow citizens...
brainwashed?? Looks like the Bush Administration has been doing a fine job after 9/11 considering that was the last time there was an attack. I don't know why you are going off saying we are all Bush propaganda machines because that doesn't help this debate whatsoever. I could say you guys are acting like Kerry + Kennedy propaganda machines. Right?!? It doesn't help anything when you say something like that.

As for saying conservatives are the real terrorists...haha All this stuff your saying is not helping your argument.
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