Originally Posted by chrisg967

I agree. Do honest, honorable people really go into politics in the first place?

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

You have affirmed your bigotry and Islamophobia. It is not religious extremism you loath but rather Islam itself. Maybe this is derived from ignorance or perhaps it has its roots all the way back to the crusades.

During the second world war, the majority of Germans followed the bible, yet no one had a problem with the bible nor Christianity.

Keith Ellison shouldn't be labeled as a Muslim, "one of them", separate from us. He is an American, one who was elected to office by the people.

Forcing elected officials to swear an oath onto one religious book and one religious book only is not only contrary to the American ideal but directly unconstitutional.

"...but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (US Constitution; Article VI. Paragraph iii)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." (US Constitution; Amendment I)

In fact, the only thing that would "undermine American civilization" would to make people swear an oath under only one religious text as Dennis Prager suggests. American civilization wasn't founded on the Christian religion, but was rather founded on the freedom to exercise what ever religion you want, if any at all, free of persecution.

Not only would not allowing him to swear in on the Koran be a religious test for office, but it would also be a violation of his freedom of religion. The 'unifying value system' is the system of secular ideologies called the freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; freedom from religious persecution is not left out of this. Religious persecution, as Prager (that sick bastard) wishes, is in fact one of the primary causes of our nation's founding. We desired to practice what ever religion we want, free of tyranny and persecution of the British Empire.

Originally Posted by alias

Yes, I loathe Islam. If you knew anything about Islam, you would loathe it also.

Originally Posted by hkbajwa

wow...

1) Christianity and every othermajor religion also has the concept of "spreading the word of God". Can anybody say "Missionary"?
But there's a HUGE difference between a "Missionary" with a gun, and a "Missionary" with a Bible, medical supplies and school text-books. And I think you know which religion is apt to employ which tactic, aren't you?

2) An Oath is an Oath. Whether it's taken with the right hand resting on your crotch, it IS A PUBLIC STATEMENT OF INTENT IN FRONT OF WITNESSES. As such it is subject to review and follow up. Which is the whole purpose i believe.
You take oaths while grabbing your crotch? Hmmmm... Michael Jackson?

3) REGARDLESS of what goes on in the US supported tyrannical muslim dictatorships, the bastion of Freedom and Democracy ought not to use the behaviour of primitive vassal states as a blueprint for their own behaviour. I can't stand the "they did it first" policies adopted by so many childish governments ont he planet.
Not sure that one's making much sense, buddy.

4) You may hate Islam all you wish.. But the fact is that violence in the name of a cause is a HUMAN disease. You mean to tell me that allt he Cold War conflicts were not ideological massacres??Hundreds of thousands of people died in some of the most horrific violence in human history.. BECAUSE OF DIFFERING POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES.
Political idealogies and theoligical stances are quite different animals, are they not?

The fact that some nutcases are willing to blow themselve sup for "Islam" is along the same lines as presidents willing to committ the lives of thousands of young soldiers in a battle against a social ideology.
No, it's not. It really is not.
It's really STUPID to think that the War in Iraq is about "social ideology". It may be about a lot of things - genocide comes to mind - but it's not simply about social ideologies.

It's the human disease the makes some people think that a "cause" is all that is required to justify violence.
This is true.
But sometimes - unfortunately - war is the only solution to a problem. WWII comes to mind.
But decisions about going to war must be made with extreme caution.

5) A small detail that may have escaped some people's notice. Keith Ellison has NOT CHANGED HIS NAME. It is common practice for converts to take on a "muslim" name. Keith has not done that. That sends a very clear message that he is AMERICAN.. and his beliefs are HIS business. A right your constitution affords him i believe.
If this is true - which it is - then why is he insisting on taking his oath of office using the Koran?
He really is an interesting person.
It will be very interesting to see how he does in Congress.