That being the case, I'd STRONGLY suggest you Muslims give Saudi Arabia back to the natives and nomads that were there before Muhammad and his blood-thirsty savages invaded and conquered the land.

FAIR ENOUGH??

hkbajwa, those palestinians who fled would still be there, living in their homeland if they hadn't left. They did leave. The rest of the muslim world wouldn't take them in. They created their own situation by leaving. There are many muslims living in Israel, even members of the Knesset, and they seem to be doing just fine. Those who call themselves palestinians have lived off the teat of other nations all these long decades without building anything worthwhile, or economically feasible among themselves for their own people. Directly next to them, a great nation has prospered and grown green and productive. When the Israeli's left already completed homes and businesses in the Gaza Strip, new ones, nice ones, working businesses even, the pally's destroyed them. The rest of the world is frankly getting sick of taking care of the now millions (they have rapidly multiplied, even though they have no means of support) of "refugees" who will claim that status forever.

Most normal people, not stirred to fever pitch of hatred on a regular basis, would have figured out ways to create a viable economy, or they would have left for other parts of the world. These are the hostiles....those who destroy, bomb and kill. They never do what they say they will do in any peace agreement. Their entreaties should be falling on deaf ears.

Is there some reason a palestinian family can't come to Pakistan and find work? Is there no way for a palestianian family to find work anywhere in Africa, South Africa, Asia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia?

Look at the money that has been going to palestinian care for many decades....what is the source of that money? Are their fellow muslim brothers giving them jobs? Schools? Banking instutions? Enterprises? Or only weaponry and bombs.

Jordan was imposed upon the Middle East. Saudi Arabia was imposed on the Middle East. Lebanon was also divided up and imposed,in the Middle East. Yet the problem is the hatred of Jews.... The hatred that will not allow for Jews to exist, and to have their own government. That whole big pie of nomadic peoples and cities was carved up and given names and even kings, but no one is claiming the King of Jordan has no right...no one is claiming the Saudi's are occupiers...no one is attacking from their borders on a regular basis.

Those nations and people that recognize Israel's right to exist have peace.

Does anybody know how many Palestinians are living in Israel?

And are you aware of the fact that those living in Israel enjoy a FAR HIGHER STANDARD OF LIVING then those whose society is based on terrorism?

Israel does NOT deny the Palestinians the right to exist. That should be a clue.

It works for me!

Well that's just your prejudice talking. First of all Saudi Arabia is not the nation of mohammad. In the sense that mohammad never left a COUNTRY to anybody. His message was across borders. Who the hell told you that Suadi Arabia was Mohammad's legacy?? Saudi arabia is a NEW STATE.

Besides MOhammad's "conquest" was of minds and peoples.. not territorial. He had no use for land. He needed to convince PEOPLE.. which frankly he DID.. DO you think a religion could have prospered as it did in the area by FORCE?

Second of all if you bother reading what i write, you would realize that i do not speak of giving back ANYTHING. The REALITY of politics is that whoever is THERE is in charge.. simple as that.

However, part of peacemaking is to accept the right of others to disagree with your actions and then take it from there.

If Israel dropped it's stance of divine right to the land in Israel, then maybe some talks could be productive.. until then it's just gonna be a rout. LIKEWISE of course the palestinians have to drop their demand of wiping out Israel. But that demand can only be dropped if Israel stops claiming divine or righteous ownership.

YOu see as long as the ISraeli state that ONLY THEY own the land, then the Palestinians become a conquered people by default (and hence second class citizens). However acceptance that wrong was and IS done on BOTH sides, is the only way towards reconciliation.

Well it's not easy to build an economy when you are being consistently bullied and invaded by your neighbor. It is also not easy when you are blockaded.. or when your neighbor controls your airspace, ports and land. It is not easy when you are squeezed into 1/4 of the area you inahbited prviously. Nor is it easy when Israel continues to buld settlements on the best land.

YOu cannot compare Israel's success with Palestine's. Firstly the huge number of immigrants have brought with them their share of capital. Secondly, control over the choicest land and all access gives Israel a massive advantage. Thirdly, Israel has enjoyed MASSIVE financial and military support from the west.

In fact the culture within the jewish community is such that they show exceptional teamwork in their community. This is probably their MAIN reason for success. Kudos to them.

However it is a wrong comparison to make. The palestinian situation is OCEANS apart fromt he Israeli, so you cannot expect the same level of success.
Well there is plenty of evidence to prove that Israel doesn't EITHER. Both sides always claim the other started it. But the jews are just more honest yes?
Well in the case of Pakistan, we are already dealing with the LARGEST number of refugees in the world. 4 Million Afghans are now living in Pakistan because of the conflicts in their home country.

And in ANY case it is COMPLETELY out of order to demand that an indigenous people get lost if they don't like it. YOu can call it anything you want, but you are evicting people from their homes.
First of all it is a fact that the muslim nations just aren't as developed or as rich as the west. Only the Oil rich muslim countries have anything to spare.. But funny enough all Arab oil is controlled by america who ensures that crooked tyrants like the Saudis continue to oppress and exploit their people. And these tyrants will never help anybody against the wishes of the US. After all you don't mess with your power base.

Besides it is not only funds that are the problem. Even if you have BILLIONS of dollars, you cannot invest them or use them of develop them if you have no control over your own space.
Ok that's the first time i've heard that. But then again i'm no historian. Got sources i can check out?

EVEN SO.. All of these nations will have been imposed by indigenous peoples on their OWN PEOPLE. That is miles apart from the imposition of a nation of FOREIGNERS ( not all jews there are immigrants, but mostly yes). 6000 years of absence makes you a FOREIGNER.
Yup. And i actually believe that ALL muslim nations should get past their crap and accept that Israel exists, and that peace MUST be made.

However that is not the same as accepting their RIGHT to exist. You cannot expect any nation to blindly accept the "righteousness" of Israel's existence when they do not believe in it. However you CAN expect them to shut up, get real and deal with Israel as the viable state that it is.

Yes or No - was Muhammad from what is now Saudi Arabia? The answer is YES. The problem is that Muhammad, and his minions, attacked and slaughtered tens of thousands of people - subduing an entire (now) country in the name of Allah. There was nobody left to disagree.

And for you to assert that Muhammad fought for the minds and souls of people, and NOT territory, is betraying your ignorance of history. And you have GOT to be kidding when you act as though Muhammad didn't use force! You have GOT to be kidding! After Muhammad went to Medina, he used NOTHING BUT FORCE AND SLAUGHTER!!!


You really need to do some historic research!

The Palestinians, living in Israel, are the wealthiest, happiest Palestinians alive.

Israel is not trying to annihilate them or wipe them off the face of the earth. Israel WANTS to live peacefully and co-exist. And the Palestinians who share the same ideals are allowed to live that way.


Figure it out!

Nope ... YOU do.

Already have, and I can assure you that the propaganda you get from Muslim apologists does NOT match history.

Regardless of how peaceful your sect of Islam is (and I sincerely thank you for that) Muhammad himself was a blood-thirsty terrorist. In addition, Islam has spread almost exclusively as a result of violence, bloodshed and fear.


BIG change is needed! And honesty is central, if that necessary change is going to happen.