There was a point about a couple of months ago when Paris Hilton could have honestly claimed to be "The most known person on the planet Earth". Why? Because we have an obsession with wanting to see the rich and famous taken down a peg. We see the special treatment and considerations they recieve; and it sickens us. At any opportunity, we want for them to be brought to "our side of the tracks".
What we must realize is it is this obsession that harbors this feeling of inadequacy in the general public. We must also realize that we encourage the attitudes of celebrity figures in that we will continue to patronize them. For example, if Paris Hilton (again) were to introdude a new line of clothes today, there would be backorders for at least a year. Movie stars are no different. We still pay to see them at the theaters. Athletes also benefit here. We go to the games(paying ungodly sums of money for the privilege, all the while this obsession of ours just fattens the pockets of these people more.
Enough of the sociology rant from me. Again, I don't think the penalty for Vick will be as severe as some people want or hope. I think he will be playing in the NFL sooner than we think.

H80, Aren't we as parents supposed to be the role models for our children? People like athletes and Hollywood celebrities are in no way required to take on this role. For some reason, many think a person that they have never met is assigned this job. I apologize if this throws this whole thread in a different direction; but I really think the job of "role model" is that of the parent(s). Vick is just an entertainer in a popular sport. That's it. If the parents are raising their children with decent values, nothing Mike Vick, Paris Hilton, or any other person can do will alter those values.

I do agree that a parent needs to be a role model for kids.

Isn't it sad, though, that in some ghettos of cities, the parents do drugs, and what can the kids do while their parents are addicted? They probably become wards of the state. That's what's happening today. In my generation, my parents were great.

You are right; but the drug epidemic has spread to the upper middle class nowadays. The only difference here is that a child will never be taken from one of these homes.I think parents nowadays need to learn a lesson from the past. Now, as someone posted in another thread earlier, "we have babies raising babies". (and not a clue as to how!) This total disregard of value has put many families into this situation. Even worse, the children today are referred to as "Generation T." That's for technology, as children today don't seem to be able to live without PDA's, cell phones, video games, and other gadgetry. Heck, I remember when my father spent $200.00 at Christmas one year (he had received a promotion in the Air Force) and that was more than plenty. Now? You might have to take a second mortgage for the things kids want today. The Young parents of today don't seem to get this. Morals and values never reach the inside of the child's mind when we perpetuate this. Babysitting? Put the kid in front of a video game. Gym shoes? $200 and sometimes more for a pair that the kid wants. I am thankful every day of my life that I was not raised to be materialistic.

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I suppose my kids belong to Generation T. There's an aging computer in their room which Dad sometimes uses. We have a playstation2 and a used Xbox. I recently gave my son my old digital camera that I got in 2001. That's about it. They are as happy playing outside as they are playing on the computer or the xbox. I would just as soon not have the consoles, but Dad likes to play on them, too. OK, I can handle that. I limit their time on them anyway.

That said, I tell my kids that it isn't about what you have, but who you are. It's not about what you look like, it's about what's inside you. I tell them that we don't have to have the latest and greatest since it'll be obsolete in 6 months, if it doesn't break beforehand. I tell them that before we get new stuff, sometimes we have to get rid of things that we don't use or play with.

I teach my kids to read labels and that they should be aware of how marketers want to exploit them. I look for examples of how things don't always live up the marketing hype and that it might look good in the commercial, but the reality is that it is likely not what they expect.

We don't try to keep up with the Joneses because we're not willing to go deeply into debt to finance it and besides, it doesn't bring happiness. It just brings a stack of stuff the the kids grew bored with because their imaginations weren't engaged. When some of my kids' friends live in $3-5M homes and they have the latest of everything, once in a while I have to explain why. I think my older son gets it. My younger son doesn't really notice it yet.

As far as role models go, it is not the job of the sports star or movie star to be a role model, but kids will see them and say, "Well, that guy is into fighting pit bulls, so it must be pretty exciting." I'm not suggesting that kids are going to dress in drag because Dennis Rodman did it, but they might dig the tats and piercings and want to do it because of someone they see. That's not all kids, but some might. I'd like to give kids credit for being able to make intelligent, informed decisions, but not all kids have been given the tools to do that. For those kids, Vick and others like him may be role models whether they want the job or not.

I liked your comment on telling your children that "it's not what you have, but who you are". More parents need to tell their children this.It's not really the children's fault because businesses have marketing departments that tell them that they can chargre enormous amounts of money for their product, and the people will want it". I remember a few years (quite a few!) ago when the Cabbage Patch doll came out . It was the ugliest thing I had ever seen, but there were stories about fights in stores, robberies, even parents flying overseas to obtain one! That set off the "Christmas Toy Race" as every toy manufacturer fought to come up with the next hot rage. Remember "Tickle Me, Elmo?" Another case of America needing to have something the next person doesn't.
I have two nephews who are into the gym shoe thing. It's actually a shame when people are robbed, even murdered for a damn pair of shoes! I ask my nephews "What is so special about these shoes in relation to any other pair"? Being young, the first answer I got was "They are the best." The marketing has gotten to the point where kids actually believe that there is such a pair of shoes that can make someone run faster and jump higher than anyone else. I was so glad when my brother told me that the local school system in their town enacted the wearing of school uniforms as a school policy. The kids don't like it, but in time; hopefully they'll see the reason for it.
You are also correct in that celebrities are in this role as models, whether they like it or not. I still think that we as parents, much as you have instilled in your sons, still must be the primary role models for our children.To expect others to teach our exact values as we see them is just asking for trouble- just ask any parent whom last year thought Mike Vick or Paris Hilton could fill that role.

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My kids remember commercials and can tell me about them. Of course, my older son can tell me the weight of a tank and how fast it can go. He really likes the Military Channel and likes watching "Dogfights"...you know, the canine-free dogfights. They absorb so very much information, it's a little scary. I have taught my children to understand the difference between 100% juice, juice drink, juice cocktail, juice drink blend and the other varieties of "kid-friendly" beverages. It's a little thing, I suppose, but I can't stand the idea of them just believing everything they see on TV, billboards, fancy labels or hear on the radio. I want them to question what they are told and what they see. I want them to make informed decisions.

They don't really have "role models" in Hollywood or sports. They like Steelers football, but the only actor they can identify by name is Jack Black. There will be a time when I will have less influence over what they see and hear and I can only hope I have prepared them to think for themselves.

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ha! I forgot to address the toy thing. Damn, but those cabbage patch dolls are butt ugly. I remember the Tickle Me Elmo frenzy and remember Beanie Babies? WTF?

In many ways, I am glad I have boys. I don't have as many as some posters here (yes, knot...I mean you!), but I would go nuts if I had girls. The overly sexualized marketing geared toward ever younger girls is disturbing. Bratz dolls come to mind. Bratz babies are just ridiculous. Some parents don't have a problem, but if I had girls, I would have a major problem with toys that suggest that young girls should be vamping it up and looking to party.

My sons love Legos, Hot Wheels, pirate stuff--pretty much anything you can build with and use your imagination with. Heck, they play a game with a paper and some crayons called "dot wars." I don't get it, but they can make a military campaign out of crayons and paper. It seems like the marketers and the toy makers have taken the imagination out of the toys. Kids are spoonfed whatever the toy corps want them to think.

Fow what it is worth, I don't have a problem with school uniforms. Some might say that it stifles individuality, but I don't see it that way. I figure that if kids aren't hung up on what clothes the other kids are wearing, maybe they'll look past the superficial and actually get to know their classmates and get down to learning. I realize that not all kids are hung up on appearances, but in schools where this is a problem, I think uniforms are a reasonable solution.

YOu are right about babies raising babies. This happens when the mother and/or the father are out doing drugs, and their young ones have to raise their brothers/sisters. If either or both parents are in jail, there can be no way that the state would allow that to happen, so they are placed in foster homes.

My cousin is a great example of that. He and his wife are white. They are raising five African-American children. I have seen pictures of them. They are a very happy family, the whole seven of them. I don't know what became of the kid's natural parents, but I can tell that it wasn't very good.

My cousin's wife is doing a tremendous job of making sure the kids get the attention they need. Like taking them to church, school, activities, etc. To me, that's a model family right there.

I'm glad to hear of your cousin and his wife. I would definitely agree to calling them a model family.
Please don't misunderstand me, H80. I wasn't trying to start a race blaming discussion with my post (We've already had enough of that on this forum!). The point I was making is that the drug problem has sread from ghetto upwards to gated communities. Drug users nowadays are wearing Botany 500 and Percy Ellis suits in the male sector, and sporting Donna Karan and Minola in the female sector.
I'm just of the opinion that we as parents must take on the resposibility of seeing to it that our children are raised with a good sense of values. We must not blame a celebrity figure for our child's mistakes in life- we must accept it a our failure as a parent ( or parents). Hopefully, we want these mistakes to be something that we can correct. If not, then society will with prison sentences and other forms of punishment. I don't believe there is anyone out there who can truthfully tell me that it is their wish to see their child in prison. I know I don't. That is why it is my job to instill upon my child the best set of values that I can, and not hope that somebody else will do so.