Originally Posted by vharlow

Gary, check out the article at this link.

Interview with John Lott, author of More Guns, Less Crime

John Lott made his famous study starting with the notion that guns were dangerous and having them everywhere was a bad thing. His own study changed his mind.
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You and he should try living in Europe, Australia, Canada, Japan, etc then you will change your minds!!





Have you EVER actually looked at evidence that doesn't agree with what you think to be true?

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I looked at the evidence gained from living in Europe and Australia, and statistics from other industrialised countries that don't share the arcane, paranoid US gun culture






Your utterly ridiculous statement that my solution is to send our kids off to colleges with guns is just another of your ways of twisting what is said. I said concealed carry or shall carry laws make it possible for law abiding citizens to have their weapons with them. That doesn't mean everyone should carry a gun, or needs to, for that matter. The mere fact that someone COULD be carrying where a criminal wants to do evil is a DETERENT. And those less inclined to carry guns, or to even defend themselves, are indeed protected by the fact that criminals don't know if they have one or not! Criminals don't know if they can just walk in and start shooting without getting shot on the spot by a law abiding hero.

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Sounds like you have yet to grasp the difference between movie-based fantasies and reality





You frankly have not said anything definitive, not quoted any statistics, not mentioned any facts at all.

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Here's some statistics for you:
1998 Murders in USA 16,974
No of murders per 100,000 inhabitants 6.3

1998 Murders in England & Wales 420
No of murders per 100,000 inhabitants 1.4

Source: FBI Crime report


And another statistic - there are more murders in LA County each year than in the entire United Kingdom







You are being emotional and irrational.
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A curious statement for someone who advocates a return to the days of rootin tootin cowboys in the wild west!!



It's understandable, but it's also not going to help protect you or anyone else to set up gun free zones. Only law abiding citizens will abide by those rules, and criminals won't.

Originally Posted by tadpole256

Many people are stabbed to death... should we ban knives?

Some people use bombs... should we ban fertalizer, dung and cumbustible materials?

Originally Posted by garysher

Feeble argument.

Guns have only one purpose unlike the other items, including bikes and cars.

You're still dancing around the central issue - if all those other western countries can eliminate or contain a gun culture, why is the US so ready to admit failure in this issue?

Originally Posted by vharlow

Did that FBI Crime Report (I'd like a link) break down the "murders" you claim by weapon? We aren't talking about knives, bludgeonings, beatings, etc....we are talking about gun control.

Here ya go:

Home Office statistics, claim that the average American is seven times more likely to be murdered than their British counterpart and 60 times more likely to be shot.

Home Office figures showed the murder rate in the US in 1998 was 6.3 per 100,000 people compared with 1.4 per 100,000 in England and Wales.

The murder rate in London is 2.9 per 100,000 compared with 8.6 per 100,000 in New York and 49.15 per 100,000 in Washington DC.

A report produced by the US Department of Justice in 1998 shows the murder rate was 5.7 times higher in the US than England and Wales and the rape rate was about three times higher.

The report also showed firearms were used in 68% of murders in the US compared with 7% in England and Wales, and in 41% of robberies in America against 5% in England and Wales.


UK POPULATION = 60 MILLION. GUN DEATHS IN UK LAST YEAR = 42.

USA POPULATION =300 MILLION. GUN DEATHS IN USA LAST YEAR = 8500+


UK POPULATION IS ONLY 1/5TH OF USA POPULATION YET THE USA HAS 180 TIMES THE GUN DEATH RATE OF THE UK.


Did you READ the statistics produced by Lott or were they too difficult to understand.

Originally Posted by vharlow

More children die on bikes than from guns. Should we ban bikes?

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I don't believe that is true.

Even if it was, bikes are not designed as a killing weapon.

I'm not denying there is danger in all kinds of benign situations, but you know full well that guns are meant to kill






Gary, I'm not advocating we "return to the days"..... It's you advocating. We have always had a Second Amendment. You are advocating we all give up our rights to protect ourselves from criminals, lay down our protections and willingly leave ourselves wide open to any evil that walks the land. You advocate we not have weapons with which we can protect our own children.

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I'm saying that if you ever want to catch up with other peer nations you will have to wean yourselves away from your arcane gun culture.






I've visited Europe, Tunisia, Morrocco, Thailand, Singapore, China, Mexico, the Caribbean and many other places on this earth. I didn't see anything there that was so great I would leave what we have here.

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So why not try to emulate some of the good points about other nations ??



I will do what I can to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. It's a solemn duty.

Originally Posted by garysher