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Gun Control Debate and defend whether or not you believe that the second amendment protects individual rights to bear arms.

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Old 04-20-2007, 12:09 PM   #331 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256 View Post
The fact is that prohibition is not an answer. Education is the answer. The problem with education is that it is hard and it can take a while to work, and in the U.S. we demand instant gratification.

In my experience, the tougher path is often more rewarding...
That is my position too.

Making guns illegal won't solve the problem, there has to be a significant mind-shift, which will take decades (c.f. acceptability of smoking)
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:59 PM   #332 (permalink)
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While I disagree with much of Gary's logic, he is correct about the purpose of a gun.Except for sport shooting; Guns were designed to kill-that's it. And the original designers of firearms themselves knew this. They just wanted a more efficient way to do so. They did not bother themselves with the social implications as we must. A gun cannot discharge itself. A trigger must be pulled; by a human.
Gary, banning guns does not,will not, and cannot solve this issue. I've said before, we cannot uninvent science or technology. Without trying to sound rude, guns are here to stay on the face of this Earth-period. We just need to regulate them better.
I know this sounds like I'm jumping between fences here; I personally do not own a gun, but I have many friends who hunt. Where are they breaking any law?More specifically, When someone contemplates a murder, do they really care what weapon they use? I really don't think so.
When I speak of regulation; I mean it's the human factor that must be regulated. I do believe that there are weapons that private citizens should not be allowed to own or purchase. I am against all forms of rapid firing (sub-machine) guns. My hunter friends nor any private citizen have no need to own such weapons. These are better suited to police forces and military use.
Old 04-20-2007, 03:31 PM   #333 (permalink)
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Now we're getting to the real meat of the situation!We must address the human factors involved. Afew posts ago, somebody wrote that his school was going to get shot up today, (4/1. This sort of behavior is unacceptable; and I hope the owners of this website reported this person to the proper authorities. I don't care if it was a prank or not; this person also has a severe problem. Yes, education takes time. And yes, we Americans are accustomed to instant gratification. But, if an issue is worth our attention, should it also not be worth our time to see it through?
Old 04-20-2007, 07:32 PM   #334 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanmac View Post
Vermont has a genuine right to carry law (i.e., requires no permits) and yet boasts the lowest crime rate in the nation (9)

a. Nationwide, concealed carry laws have worked to drop crime rates. Indeed, a comprehensive national study in 1996 determined that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. (10)

b. The results of the study showed:

* States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%; and

* If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly. (11)

9. Morgan Quitno Press, Crime State Rankings 1996, at iv.

10. John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns," University of Chicago, (13 July 1996). See also Lott, Jr., "More Guns, Less Violent Crime," The Wall Street Journal (28 August 1996).

11. See supra note 9.
This looks like a copy/paste from a website, and not your own words. Do you have a citation for it? Thanks.
Old 04-20-2007, 11:00 PM   #335 (permalink)
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Yes it was copy/paste
CCW (Concealed Carry) W/O Gov't Permission; Yelling Fire in Theatres.
Yes I know that the website name does sound biased, but I have never heard about gun violence increasing after states passed concealed carry
Old 04-20-2007, 11:24 PM   #336 (permalink)
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I am just gonna guess that this issue has been addressed with the information that I am going to post a link to here. Now I have truly shyed away from firearms and the issue at all. But I was looking to learn and consider the viewpoints of others and came across this article. I do vaguely remember something about this at the time of Katrina, but now I read it all and am seriously seeing a wrong course of action when the government would disarm it's law-abiding citizens.

It is still hard for me, but this article really opened my eyes:

"In the nearly two weeks since Hurricane Katrina, the government of New Orleans has devolved from its traditional status as an elective kleptocracy into something far more dangerous: an anarcho-tyranny that refuses to protect the public from criminals while preventing people from protecting themselves. At the orders of New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, the New Orleans Police, the National Guard, the Oklahoma National Guard, and U.S. Marshals have begun breaking into homes at gunpoint, confiscating their lawfully-owned firearms, and evicting the residents. "No one is allowed to be armed. We're going to take all the guns," says P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police.
Last week, thousands of New Orleanians huddled in the Superdome and the Convention Center got a taste of anarcho-tyranny. Everyone entering those buildings was searched for firearms. So for a few days, they lived in a small world without guns. As in other such worlds, the weaker soon became the prey of the stronger. Tuesday's New Orleans Times-Picayune reported some of the grim results, as an Arkansas National Guardsman showed the reporter dozens of bodies rotting in a non-functional freezer.
In the rest of the city, some police officers abandoned their posts, while others joined the looting spree. For several days, the ones who stayed on the job did not act to stop the looting that was going on right in front of them. To the extent that any homes or businesses were saved, the saviors were the many good citizens of New Orleans who defended their families, homes, and businesses with their own firearms."
http://www.reason.com/news/printer/32966.html

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Old 04-20-2007, 11:28 PM   #337 (permalink)
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Thank you OD
Old 04-21-2007, 07:15 AM   #338 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256 View Post
I do not agree. Guns can also be used for hunting and sport shooting.
Granted, but you know as well as I do that hardly anyone does sports shooting and nobody needs a hunting rifle in a city.
I'm talking about the vast majority of firearms which are specifically designed to kill people.
THIS IS NOT WAR. THIS IS PEST CONTROL!
Old 04-21-2007, 07:45 AM   #339 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
Granted, but you know as well as I do that hardly anyone does sports shooting and nobody needs a hunting rifle in a city.
I'm talking about the vast majority of firearms which are specifically designed to kill people.

There are a fey shootinf ranges around here in my town. And someone is doing it cause theu seem to stay open.
Old 04-21-2007, 09:11 AM   #340 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanmac View Post
Yes it was copy/paste
CCW (Concealed Carry) W/O Gov't Permission; Yelling Fire in Theatres.
Yes I know that the website name does sound biased, but I have never heard about gun violence increasing after states passed concealed carry
Thanks. It's not only the website name that sounds biased.
I have not studied the effect of concealed carry laws on gun violence. If you or anyone else on this forum finds any such studies, please post them.
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