Texan shoots burglars in cold blood - no charges pressed - Page 14

garysher · 12-13-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

I don't believe that has been clearly established.

I have listened to the tape. And I have read two transcripts of the tape that do not agree with each other.

I conclude from what I heard that Horn was over-zealously trying to stop two men who had just robbed his neighbor. Further, I conclude that his killing of these men may well be criminal homicide but is not capital murder, ie: "murder with fore thought."

When he goes to trial Joe Horn's prosecutors will have a field day with his statement :

"I'm not going to let them get away with it," and "I'm gonna kill them."

Only the most delusional gun advocate could pretend their was no malice aforethought.

Many Americans seem incapable of separating their justifiable anger from the act of murder, making them no different from the terrorists they allegedly want to democratise in Iraq.

garysher · 12-13-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I haven't really heard all the evidence yet...Nor have a read the actual law and how it's worded. Maybe I need to get on that huh? But on the surface, it looks like he should be okay. Illegal aliens caught red handed running from a crime. Cops shoot people like that all the time.

So if they had been US citizens then he should just winged them?

Gadgetory · 12-13-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

I don't believe that has been clearly established.

I have listened to the tape. And I have read two transcripts of the tape that do not agree with each other.

I conclude from what I heard that Horn was over-zealously trying to stop two men who had just robbed his neighbor. Further, I conclude that his killing of these men may well be criminal homicide but is not capital murder, ie: "murder with fore thought."

He hasn't been charged and convicted of anything so nothing is clearly established. Except we know through his own admission and the tape he left the house after being told by an employee of the police force to stay in his house with a freakin gun should give us a moment to pause. WTF was his intent then??
He left the house, he wasn't in danger, he took a gun that he armed before he left the house, he was told to stay away and then shot 2 people. Its wasn't even his house, there is a legal system.

CrazyFlamingos · 12-13-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

When he goes to trial Joe Horn's prosecutors will have a field day with his statement :

"I'm not going to let them get away with it," and "I'm gonna kill them."

Only the most delusional gun advocate could pretend their was no malice aforethought.

Many Americans seem incapable of separating their justifiable anger from the act of murder, making them no different from the terrorists they allegedly want to democratise in Iraq.

Those two statements that you think condemn him are can very easily mean something else in the context of the conversation.

"I'm not going to let them get away with it," simply meant that he intended to go outside and try to stop them from leaving.

And "I'm gonna kill them." was a direct response to the dispatcher saying to Horn, "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

Clearly Horn meant that if the two men tried to kill him, they would be the ones killed.

Only the most rabid anti-gun fanatic could pretend that those statements indicate an intent to commit murder.

(See how that works?)

garysher · 12-13-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

Those two statements that you think condemn him are can very easily mean something else in the context of the conversation.

"I'm not going to let them get away with it," simply meant that he intended to go outside and try to stop them from leaving.

And "I'm gonna kill them." was a direct response to the dispatcher saying to Horn, "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

Clearly Horn meant that if the two men tried to kill him, they would be the ones killed.

Only the most rabid anti-gun fanatic could pretend that those statements indicate an intent to commit murder.

(See how that works?)

So "I'm gonna kill them" doesn't actually mean that he's going to kill them in your delusional opinion?

Do you also believe that black is white, right is left and up is down?

See how some people can convince themselves of just about anything??

I suggest you pursue a career in stand up comedy rather than practice law.

CrazyFlamingos · 12-13-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadgetory

He hasn't been charged and convicted of anything so nothing is clearly established. Except we know through his own admission and the tape he left the house after being told by an employee of the police force to stay in his house with a freakin gun should give us a moment to pause. WTF was his intent then??
He left the house, he wasn't in danger, he took a gun that he armed before he left the house, he was told to stay away and then shot 2 people. Its wasn't even his house, there is a legal system.

And the legal system will conclude his guilt or innocence.

I find it fascinating that so many here have reached their own conclusions without knowledge of all the facts.

The only conclusion that I have made is that the taped conversation does not create guilty of malice aforethought in my mind.

garysher · 12-13-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

And the legal system will conclude his guilt or innocence.

I find it fascinating that so many here have reached their own conclusions without knowledge of all the facts.

The only conclusion that I have made is that the taped conversation does not create guilty of malice aforethought in my mind.

I'm glad you added "in my mind".

Apart from you, most people don't have a problem understanding that "I'm gonna kill them" constitutes malice aforethought.

You seem to think I'm gonna kill them" actually meant "I'm gonna ask them what time it is".

CrazyFlamingos · 12-13-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

So "I'm gonna kill them" doesn't actually mean that he's going to kill them in your delusional opinion?

I already answered that question. I refer you to my previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

"I'm gonna kill them." was a direct response to the dispatcher saying to Horn, "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

Clearly Horn meant that if the two men tried to kill him, they would be the ones killed.

CrazyFlamingos · 12-13-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

I'm glad you added "in my mind".

Apart from you, most people don't have a problem understanding that "I'm gonna kill them" constitutes malice aforethought.

And any first year law student would be able to demonstrate why, within the context of the conversation, that that statemebt did not constitute malice aforethought.

I refer you to my previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

"I'm gonna kill them." was a direct response to the dispatcher saying to Horn, "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

Clearly Horn meant that if the two men tried to kill him, they would be the ones killed.

garysher · 12-13-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

And any first year law student would be able to demonstrate why, within the context of the conversation, that that statemebt did not constitute malice aforethought.

I refer you to my previous post.

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos (Texan shoots burglars in cold blood - no charges pressed)

"I'm gonna kill them." was a direct response to the dispatcher saying to Horn, "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

Clearly Horn meant that if the two men tried to kill him, they would be the ones killed.

Even a first year law student knows you have to give reasons for your assertions.

Firstly, it is not at all clear that Horn meant he would only kill them IF they tried to kill him. A few seconds earlier he had said he wasn't going to let them get away with it.

Secondly, he had refused to act under a direct police order to stay indoors, where he would not have been at any risk from the two burglars.

Thirdly, neither of the burglars were armed. He shot them in cold blood when neither had tried to attack him.

BTW even Horn has since expressed remorse for what he did and for the family.

You may think shooting and killing two people is no big deal, because you exist in a fantasy, TV-driven consciousness.

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