| Gun Control Debate and defend whether or not you believe that the second amendment protects individual rights to bear arms. | 
12-11-2007, 03:26 AM
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#51 (permalink)
| | Villiage Idiot
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Originally Posted by garysher  So do you advocate vigilante justice in preference to the Rule of Law? | No I'm a big fan of the idea of laws, especially ones that have a proper moral basis, ie, all decent and law abiding citizens should be allowed to protect themselves, their loved ones, and their property at ALL times.....we could extend this to the community in general as well.
As was already mentioned in this thread, if you shoot someone and merely wound them, they might decide to exact revenge, so whilst it seems excessive to shoot to kill, it might actually be the safer option.....having said that, I'm not sure I'd shoot someone who stole my old pushbike. Sticking up for antiquated or inadequate law is morally objectionable…..and remember, the law is “just a piece of god damned paper”, in reality, there’s you and the other dude, and if both of you abide by basic moral laws, then neither of you should need to exercise extreme measures. FYI, I believe society should be overhauled, and I think someone like Ron Paul would be a great initial option, however, I’m someone who believes in objective ethics, so ideally, society will eventually get round to implementing them, but I’m not counting on it. | 
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12-11-2007, 04:26 AM
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#52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher So do you advocate vigilante justice in preference to the Rule of Law? | Rule of Law is only a fancy way of saying moral authority, by doing what is right. Please quality what is the basis for what you consider right from wrong. | |
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12-11-2007, 07:23 AM
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#53 (permalink)
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12-11-2007, 08:43 AM
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#54 (permalink)
| | SIMPLETON
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Originally Posted by Jenifer Johnson Rule of Law is only a fancy way of saying moral authority, by doing what is right. Please quality what is the basis for what you consider right from wrong. | Why don't you go first? You know, so we'll know how you feel about things...
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12-11-2007, 11:21 AM
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#55 (permalink)
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Level up: 8%, 9 Points needed | | Well in Texas, if you break into someone's home, the home owner does have the right to shoot you. Maybe this law played a role in the reason he wasn't chargewd. | |
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12-11-2007, 04:15 PM
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#56 (permalink)
| | Villiage Idiot
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Originally Posted by fxashun Why don't you go first? You know, so we'll know how you feel about things... | Stop being such an A-Hole | |
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12-11-2007, 04:49 PM
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#57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher So do you advocate vigilante justice in preference to the Rule of Law? | The answe4r is no. People get all up in your face about the rule of law when somone suggests we just let illegal immigrants stay because well its a better alternative then the 93 billion dollars and the 100 years it will take to find the people currently here...the detractors of such an idea rattle on about the Rule of Law..without understanding what the concept really means but thats another argument.
The guy did the wrong thing. You only get to shoot people if you have a clear and present danger. Leaving your house after a police despatcher had told you to stay inside your house is not a clear and present danger but putting your own life in danger and it could be argued committing a crime whilst another crime was in progress ...falls under the concept of Felony murder.
You also have to met force with like force. If the guy confronts people and they have a tire iron using a gun is a disproportional reaction.
Vigilante justice undermines the foundation of our society and should never be tolerated. I don't care what the other 2 did or had done. The guy is not a hero but just as bad as the 2 guys stealing from his neighbor. It doesn't mean the 2 men that he killed aren't complete cretins either it just means we have a legal system, the police had been called and that is the end of the story. The guy murdered two people its that simple. His property was not in danger, he was not personally in danger, he wasn't even afraid because he left his home, if he was in fear he'd of stayed inside following the advice of the depatcher but instead he left his home after being told to stay inside by a person employed by the police to give advice in such instances (as well as dispatch police) and hunted them down.
Whats next its Ok to kill someone because you thought they looked like they may do something???
People got very exicted because these 2 are illegals with a criminal record its just that simple..same hysterical reactionary crap from the media... vigilante justice is never a good thing and should be treated with disdain and he should be charged. | |
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12-11-2007, 04:56 PM
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#58 (permalink)
| | Partisan
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Originally Posted by Gadgetory The answe4r is no. People get all up in your face about the rule of law when somone suggests we just let illegal immigrants stay because well its a better alternative then the 93 billion dollars and the 100 years it will take to find the people currently here...the detractors of such an idea rattle on about the Rule of Law..without understanding what the concept really means but thats another argument.
The guy did the wrong thing. You only get to shoot people if you have a clear and present danger. Leaving your house after a police despatcher had told you to stay inside your house is not a clear and present danger but putting your own life in danger and it could be argued committing a crime whilst another crime was in progress ...falls under the concept of Felony murder.
You also have to met force with like force. If the guy confronts people and they have a tire iron using a gun is a disproportional reaction.
Vigilante justice undermines the foundation of our society and should never be tolerated. I don't care what the other 2 did or had done. The guy is not a hero but just as bad as the 2 guys stealing from his neighbor. It doesn't mean the 2 men that he killed aren't complete cretins either it just means we have a legal system, the police had been called and that is the end of the story. The guy murdered two people its that simple. His property was not in danger, he was not personally in danger, he wasn't even afraid because he left his home, if he was in fear he'd of stayed inside following the advice of the depatcher but instead he left his home after being told to stay inside by a person employed by the police to give advice in such instances (as well as dispatch police) and hunted them down.
Whats next its Ok to kill someone because you thought they looked like they may do something???
People got very exicted because these 2 are illegals with a criminal record its just that simple..same hysterical reactionary crap from the media... vigilante justice is never a good thing and should be treated with disdain and he should be charged. | Good post gadget - you nailed it (for once!)
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12-11-2007, 05:03 PM
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#59 (permalink)
| | Villiage Idiot
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Originally Posted by Gadgetory .
vigilante justice is never a good thing and should be treated with disdain and he should be charged. | What we see here is someone who thinks that an inefficient police force is preferable to dealing with blatant criminals, also, the idea that a neighbour can’t protect the life and property of other neighbours simply means that no-one can, even the property owner, IOW, criminals can enter your property, waltz thru your bedroom/your kids bedroom with complete freedom…..and you’re not allowed to use a weapon of greater force than what the criminals have because it'll be EFFECTIVE, LOL. You sound like a crim to me chump. | |
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12-11-2007, 05:17 PM
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#60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gadgetory The guy did the wrong thing. | Since you used the term "wrong" thing, please quality what is the basis for what you consider right from wrong.
Since you and garysher are in agreement, but garysher wasn't able to articulate it for me, maybe you can. | |
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