Defending the Truth

garysher · 03-24-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfrazz1

I had an encounter where I am sure the fact that I was armed prevented me from being a victim of violence. A car cut me off and forced me off the road. A very large man with a ZZ Top beard and a heavy southern accent got out of the other car and approached me yelling terms derogatory to Jews (calling me a "fucking Jew boy" for example) and it was obvious he wanted to pull me out of the car and beat me. I'm Sicilian by the way.

I made it obvious that I was armed by raising my 9mm, chambering a round and pointing it directly at him. I told him that if he put one fingerprint on my car that they would be scraping his brains off the pavement. He turned his booze reeking face around and high tailed it back to his car and took off, much to my relief. Guns do work to protect citizens who are threatened by criminals.

Which part of Baghdad were you driving through at the time?

hot dragon · 03-24-2008, 09:08 PM

there are some very good points made in this thread, specifically about the fact that there are some societies with lax gun controls, and still without the level of gun violence that the USA has. also, that there is plenty of violence in societies without guns.

perhaps the issue facing america is the gun culture rather than gun laws. if you guys are happy living with a culture where one person in 105 has to use a firearm every year then go for it. personally, i am glad the culture in australia is different. and glad our laws make it highly unlikely that we will follow your example.

bfrazz1 · 03-24-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Which part of Baghdad were you driving through at the time?

If only that were true, it would be much easier to reconcile. However, the incident I described occurred in Miami Gardens, Florida.

bfrazz1 · 03-24-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indago

bfrazz1 wrote:

And it is these many types of incidents that do not get reported in the media where a weapon is used to thwart a criminal acivity.

Quite true, I did not report the incident to the police or the media. I just told my wife and some friends about it. But I can;t help wonder how many other people have found themselves in a similar situation as mine and avoided victimization due to their having a gun for protection? My suspicion is quite a few have.

garysher · 03-24-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfrazz1

If only that were true, it would be much easier to reconcile. However, the incident I described occurred in Miami Gardens, Florida.

As long as Americans wallow in their self-imposed gun culture you will have to deal with Baghdad style violence.

BTW why didn't you just drive off? Was it really necessary to threaten another person's life just because he cut you up in traffic??

Perhaps we should ask our Australian friend how he would have dealt with a similar motoring incident in Australia sans guns??

Grace · 03-25-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

As long as Americans wallow in their self-imposed gun culture you will have to deal with Baghdad style violence.

BTW why didn't you just drive off? Was it really necessary to threaten another person's life just because he cut you up in traffic??

Perhaps we should ask our Australian friend how he would have dealt with a similar motoring incident in Australia sans guns??

People will not change, just cause they dont have guns. (even though they will still have guns anyway, considering criminals wont be handing them over) They will just use other weapons.

garysher · 03-25-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

People will not change, just cause they dont have guns. (even though they will still have guns anyway, considering criminals wont be handing them over) They will just use other weapons.

I agree some people will always have violent tendencies but "other weapons" are far less lethal than guns. That's why other industrialised countries suffer only a fraction of the homicides that America does.

It's interesting that gun nuts don't take the same attitude with other areas of behaviour, for example

"if abortion were made illegal people are still going to get abortions so why bother"

or

" speed limits don't stop people from speeding so let's just abolish speed limits"

hot dragon · 03-25-2008, 09:08 PM

i find myself in the interesting position of actually agreeing with garysher.

why didnt you just drive off? and what happened before the incident that lead to him "forcing you off the road"? i suspect there is more to the story. there may not be more to it, of course, there are people out there who simply like to pick a fight for fun.

in australia, you could be arrested for what you did. you could be arrested just for having the gun in the car at all. the other guy should be arrested too, obviously, but i dont think many people would advocate that he should be shot.

i think your story speaks of a culture that respects violence as a solution to problems, rather than condeming violence as a problem itself. removing guns is not going to stop that guy cutting you off or getting angry, your culture needs another way of dealing with that. but removing guns would mean that this kind of episode is much less likely to turn into a fatality.

garysher · 03-25-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot dragon

i find myself in the interesting position of actually agreeing with garysher.

why didnt you just drive off? and what happened before the incident that lead to him "forcing you off the road"? i suspect there is more to the story. there may not be more to it, of course, there are people out there who simply like to pick a fight for fun.

in australia, you could be arrested for what you did. you could be arrested just for having the gun in the car at all. the other guy should be arrested too, obviously, but i dont think many people would advocate that he should be shot.

i think your story speaks of a culture that respects violence as a solution to problems, rather than condemning violence as a problem itself. removing guns is not going to stop that guy cutting you off or getting angry, your culture needs another way of dealing with that. but removing guns would mean that this kind of episode is much less likely to turn into a fatality.

Hear, hear!

The best way to get yanks to abandon their gun culture is to let them live in a country like Australia, Canada or the UK for a year or two.

Then they will learn the astonishing fact - it IS possible to get through life without carrying a gun under your pillow or in your glove box!!!

Katczinsky · 03-25-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

I agree some people will always have violent tendencies but "other weapons" are far less lethal than guns. That's why other industrialised countries suffer only a fraction of the homicides that America does.

It's interesting that gun nuts don't take the same attitude with other areas of behaviour, for example

"if abortion were made illegal people are still going to get abortions so why bother"

or

" speed limits don't stop people from speeding so let's just abolish speed limits"

Hmmm, good point. I guess the philosophy could be applied to any law.

"Well, only good law-abiding people obey laws, and the criminals just ignore them, so why have them at all?"

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a real flip-flopper on this issue. I know there should be at least some kind of regulations and restrictions. Generally I'm torn between exactly how stringent restrictions should be. However, I don't think it is at all a good idea, let alone a realistic one, to completely ban guns.

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