Englands Gun crimes 4 times higher since ban

garysher · 03-18-2008, 01:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Grace

Brother wake up, you already are. (not you per say

) 4 times the crime since the ban brother. That says it all.

But if everybody was walking around with guns, US style, we'd end up with 400 times the crime!

The last thing the British people want is to end up like America.

There are more murders in Los Angeles alone than in the entire United Kingdom.

Did you hear the story of the mother serving in Iraq who had to fly home for her 17 year old son's funeral? He was slaughtered outside his own home.

The school and mall mass shootings in America are so frequent they barely stay in the news for 48 hours.

We don't want that in Britain thanks!

Grace · 03-18-2008, 01:16 PM

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Originally Posted by garysher

That's a complete misnomer Grace, like most of the other garbage quoted in the NRA handbook.

Those 6 million Jews couldn't have stopped Hitler with or without guns.

Maybe not, but at least they could have had a fighting chance. At the very least could have went out on there own terms.

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Many of the countries annexed by the Nazis during the 1930's had free access to firearms. That didn't stop them from being occupied.

Well yea, guns arent going to stop bombs.

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Iraq has never had any gun control laws, and most Iraqis own guns. But that didn't stop Saddam from oppressing Iraq for over 30 years, nor the US from occupying it in 3 weeks!

Well yea, guns arent going to stop bombs.

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Ditto Angola, Rwanda, Uganda under Amin, Chile under Pinochet and many many other examples.

Again, the bomb thing

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The idea that gun ownership provides a defence against an army is nonsense.

Hilter wasnt going to bomb his own country (at least I dont think he would have) I for one wouldnt mind replaying the seen with the Jews (and others) with 12 gages this time around. Who knows what it would have changed? At least the German people could witness what was going on, and maybe picked up there guns as well. Instead of marching them out to kill them behind the public eye.

Grace · 03-18-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

But if everybody was walking around with guns, US style, we'd end up with 400 times the crime!

Im not saying everyone in England should own a gun, but the statistics show, when its lawfull, there is WAY less crime. 4 Times to be exact.

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The last thing the British people want is to end up like America.

The numbers dont lie, you already are.

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There are more murders in Los Angeles alone than in the entire United Kingdom.

Not American criminals.

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Did you hear the story of the mother serving in Iraq who had to fly home for her 17 year old son's funeral? He was slaughtered outside his own home.

The school and mall mass shootings in America are so frequent they barely stay in the news for 48 hours.

Yes, but those are done by criminals who in no way are going to hand over there guns, no matter what laws are past.

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We don't want that in Britain thanks!

4 times

garysher · 03-18-2008, 01:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Grace

Maybe not, but at least they could have had a fighting chance. At the very least could have went out on there own terms.

Have you read about the Warsaw Uprising?
Military description of the Warsaw Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well yea, guns arent going to stop bombs.

Civilians with guns aren't going to stop well trained armies - with or without bombs.

THe Nazis didn't need to bomb Belgium or Poland or Holland or France - they marched right in.

Hilter wasnt going to bomb his own country (at least I dont think he would have) I for one wouldnt mind replaying the seen with the Jews (and others) with 12 gages this time around. Who knows what it would have changed? At least the German people could witness what was going on, and maybe picked up there guns as well. Instead of marching them out to kill them behind the public eye.

Plenty of German civilians DID own guns, but they were powerless against the might of the Third Reich.

How long do you think the Pink Pistols would last against the 101st Airborne??

Grace · 03-18-2008, 01:27 PM

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Originally Posted by garysher

Plenty of German civilians DID own guns, but they were powerless against the might of the Third Reich.

How long do you think the Pink Pistols would last against the 101st Airborne??

From what I understand, the first thing Hitler did was disarm the public. And like I said, I dont think he would have bombed his own country. And even if he did, at least the horror would have been in full view of the public.

Grace · 03-18-2008, 01:29 PM

Warsaw is in Poland. Hitler wouldnt have any problem bombing them. Im sure he would have lost all public support (which was key to his take over, and control) had he began bombing his own cities.

garysher · 03-18-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

Im not saying everyone in England should own a gun, but the statistics show, when its lawfull, there is WAY less crime. 4 Times to be exact.

How do you know that the rise in crime is due to the handgun ban? It may well have been due to unrelated factors - for example there has also been a steep rise in immigration during those years.

How do you know that crime would not have risen 8 or 10 or 20 times if handguns had remained available?

Infact anyone can buy a shotgun providing they obtain the necessary licence.

Yes, but those are done by criminals who in no way are going to hand over there guns, no matter what laws are past.

Nearly all the school and mall mass shootings in America are carried out by people with no previous criminal record.

Why does it happen so frequently in America but hardly ever in Europe and never in Japan?

4 times

See above.

It's also true that British people value life far more than Americans. There have been no Joe Horn's in Britain.

The Brits might put up with an increase in non-violent crime rather than risk losing lives by having people go around armed - US style.

Grace · 03-18-2008, 01:33 PM

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Originally Posted by garysher

See above.

It's also true that British people value life far more than Americans. There have been no Joe Horn's in Britain.

The Brits might put up with an increase in non-violent crime rather than risk losing lives by having people go around armed - US style.

I dont believe that for one second. Like I said, I hardly know anyone who walks around with guns. And the couple that I do know are in law enforcment.

Man, you guys call us arrogent.

Grace · 03-18-2008, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Grace (Englands Gun crimes 4 times higher since ban)

Im not saying everyone in England should own a gun, but the statistics show, when its lawfull, there is WAY less crime. 4 Times to be exact.

How do you know that the rise in crime is due to the handgun ban? It may well have been due to unrelated factors - for example there has also been a steep rise in immigration during those years.

How do you know that crime would not have risen 8 or 10 or 20 times if handguns had remained available?

Infact anyone can buy a shotgun providing they obtain the necessary licence.

seems to me all the more reason to want to own a gun.

Yes, but those are done by criminals who in no way are going to hand over there guns, no matter what laws are past.

Nearly all the school and mall mass shootings in America are carried out by people with no previous criminal record.
With columbine they were children who stole guns. The VA one I'll give you, cause even I think they are to lose on gun control.The couple others just seem to be knock offs of the originals.
Why does it happen so frequently in America but hardly ever in Europe and never in Japan?
You may not get that as much, but its obvious your goverment has no problem lieing to you about the amount of gun crimes there really are. Which are alot.

garysher · 03-18-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace

Originally Posted by Grace (Englands Gun crimes 4 times higher since ban)

Im not saying everyone in England should own a gun, but the statistics show, when its lawfull, there is WAY less crime. 4 Times to be exact.

How do you know that the rise in crime is due to the handgun ban? It may well have been due to unrelated factors - for example there has also been a steep rise in immigration during those years.

How do you know that crime would not have risen 8 or 10 or 20 times if handguns had remained available?

Infact anyone can buy a shotgun providing they obtain the necessary licence.

seems to me all the more reason to want to own a gun.

So you agree that the rise in crime may be completely UNrelated to handgun controls?

You may not get that as much, but its obvious your goverment has no problem lieing to you about the amount of gun crimes there really are. Which are alot.

I see so you know more about gun crime in Britain than the British government!!

Pray enlighten us!

The reason Britain imposed handgun controls after the Dunblane massacre ( when a madman walked into a school and killed 14 children and a teacher) is because the British people DEMANDED their government took that action.

It's called democracy.

Fortunately the British people are not constrained by the well-meant musings of a bunch of 18th century Brit ex-pats.