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Gun Control Debate and defend whether or not you believe that the second amendment protects individual rights to bear arms.

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Old 08-07-2008, 03:27 PM   #91 (permalink)
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I am a gun owner. I have no cowboy fantasies - I got my gun, joined a gun club, and go practice shooting 1 or 2 times a month ONLY for protection.

AND I would be perfectly happy if we had a nation-wide ban on guns.

HOWEVER. It's never going to happen.

Criminals do not FOLLOW the laws ... ergo, we call them criminals. They will ALWAYS have guns. If not one more gun was manufactured, there would be enough guns for all the criminals to have them for another century or two.

That cat is out of the bag. It will never go back in.

We have to stop trying to stop people from having guns. We have them. We're going to keep them. We need to spend all that time, energy and money on education to ensure gun safety.
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Conservatism: Self-centered mean-spiritedness fueled by ignorance and misguided self-importance.

"I would gladly give in to socialized medicine, gun control, higher taxes, etc. if in return homosexuality would be made illegal (exception for cute girls making out) and vigorously enforced."
(ask yourself: is this the statement of a healthy, well-adjusted, normal guy?)

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Old 08-07-2008, 03:48 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrone_det View Post
Two other comments. Gary advocates the British system, but I would not want to be an unarmed British police officer (and more and more of them are becoming armed). I've seen videos of British police officers throwing billy clubs and batons at cars in situations where the driver is aiming the car at the police officers. When you really need to use lethal force, its too late to wish for a firearm.

I can't agree that trying to eliminate a gun mentality is solely the 'British system'. Although, as with many things, we Brits seem to do it best!

The British police are polled regularly about carrying guns and they always vote in favour of NOT being armed. Because they know this simply escalates the situation and pretty much guarantees that criminals will be armed too.

Also they are very aware of the risk of ending up like America, even though the two societies have many differences.

Most towns and cities in Britain have Armed Response Units which can be called into a situation if required.

I've seen videos of American police run down by drivers or fired at too!
Old 08-07-2008, 03:52 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I am a gun owner. I have no cowboy fantasies - I got my gun, joined a gun club, and go practice shooting 1 or 2 times a month ONLY for protection.

AND I would be perfectly happy if we had a nation-wide ban on guns.

HOWEVER. It's never going to happen.

Criminals do not FOLLOW the laws ... ergo, we call them criminals. They will ALWAYS have guns. If not one more gun was manufactured, there would be enough guns for all the criminals to have them for another century or two.

That cat is out of the bag. It will never go back in.

We have to stop trying to stop people from having guns. We have them. We're going to keep them. We need to spend all that time, energy and money on education to ensure gun safety.
You are right, the cat is out of the bag. It's unthinkable that America will ever eliminate its gun mentality. That's why it's murder rate is 5-10 times higher than most other industrialised countries.

But it's sad that you feel the need to own a gun for protection, especially in the 'Land of the Free'.
Old 08-08-2008, 09:37 AM   #94 (permalink)
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I would never have a gun in my house, but I still support the 2nd ammendment.
Old 08-08-2008, 02:25 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrone_det View Post
Two other comments. Gary advocates the British system, but I would not want to be an unarmed British police officer (and more and more of them are becoming armed). I've seen videos of British police officers throwing billy clubs and batons at cars in situations where the driver is aiming the car at the police officers. When you really need to use lethal force, its too late to wish for a firearm.

In the south, I know that the rate is kept of carjackings and home invasions is kept down because the criminals know that most houses and many car drivers are armed.

I wish that more women had concealed carry permits and guns at their houses or apartments. It doesn't happen very often, but there's nothing that brings a smile to my face like a case where a woman dusts off an intruder in her house.

A big dog at the house, btw, is better than a gun at deterring burglars and home intruders.

Now the random thoughts I add to about 1/2 my posts. Cops get TVitis also (like the criminals who emulate TV by holding their guns sideways when firing). I hate to see a cop jump on the hood of a car as its driver is trying to flee from a traffic stop then shoot the driver because the cop was endangered. Bad procedure. You don't jump on or in cars as a perp is trying to escape. The only time a cop should be attached to a fleeing car is by accident (trying to pull the guy out of the car and getting caught as the guy drives off would be one instance).

Little man syndrome part 2

I'm a pretty big guy so I rarely have to wrestle or fight with someone I'm arresting. I know some officers who aren't big guys who never get into brawls because they have great verbal skills. They not only have strong officer presence but they also have diplomacy and tact. I know other officers who get into brawls every week becuase they lack officer presence, tact or diplomacy.

Domestic cases are ripe for this. Mandatory arrest rules really lead to some unfair results. I remember a case where the husband, who was a huge guy, had a small scratch on his arm from his petite (but apparently hot tempered) live-in girlfriend. The guy doesn't want the girlfriend arrested, mostly because he's embarrassed about "needing" protection from her.

Gary (his real first name), a real dick, starts to cuff her without explaining why. This makes huge guy and gf mad, and you can see the escalation starting. Then Ron comes up, quietly explains that they have no choice but to make an arrest, sympathizes with the guy over the unfairness of the law in this situation, and then makes the arrest without incident.

Officers need some discretion in these cases. A lot of couples fight around Xmas on financial stuff, and I hate when we have to haul the breadwinner to jail when the "visible marks" are minimal and there clearly was no real injury, when the arrest will probably cause the breadwinner to lose his or her job, and the end result will be more financial pressure on this family.

On the other hand, I hate a guy who beats women. I want one to take a swing at me. They never do, however, because they are cowards.



Police officers could benefit from the media and Liberal groups not attacking them for political purposes.
Old 08-08-2008, 04:34 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wow View Post
Police officers could benefit from the media and Liberal groups not attacking them for political purposes.
Most people, liberal or conservative, have a love-hate relationship with the police. The scariest people I deal with are the ultra-right, religious fundamentalists who seem to have a dash of schizophrenia with their religion. Some liberals give us a lot of grief on the political front, but if you want to be loved by the public, find another profession.
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:50 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Even if someone likes to go hunting why do they need to drive around with guns in their trucks to drop the kids off at school??

Are they still acting out their cowboy fantasies in the wild west??
During bird hunting season, a lot of hunters hunt every evening. Instead of taking gun out of the trunk, putting gun back in the trunk, taking gun of out of the trunk, putting gun back in the trunk, they leave the gun in their vehicle. Others keep the gun in their vehicle for protection, which is defeated if you have to keep the gun at home every time you have to go to (or by) a school.

99 % of the cops understand this, which is why it is rare to see an arrest for a school zone - gun violation absent the person waving the gun around.

There are always going to be some cowboy types with guns, but most gun owners are responsible. In addition to needing it for my job, I enjoy target shooting. I own a Thompson submachine gun - its a real joy to fire. I laugh when I see a movie where someone handles a Thompson with one hand, as the gun itself is heavy, and it really gets heavy when you add the .45 ammunition. I keep it and 6 30 round box magazines in my trunk when I'm on duty. If you ever need stopping power, its got it.

Fortunately, we don't have agencies with the SWAT only mentality where no one responds in a major crisis until SWAT arrives. This caused unnecessary deaths at Columbine and, I suspect, a Virginia Tech. Compare those responses to how the LAPD responded to that Heat-style bank shoot out where the officers used pistols, initially, to engage in a firefight with bandits with fully automatic rifles and body armor. They finally went to a gun store and borrowed some better weapons.

When someone is shooting up some place, you cannot sit around and wait. I saw a video from Tyler Texas where a man was shooting a AK47 around the courthouse. A patrolman, who was on the SWAT team, rode on the hood of a patrol car so that he could roll off and fire at the suspect. The suspect had left, but the same officer ends up taking him out on the highway a few minutes later.

Had he waited for a SWAT setup, more people would have been killed.

You have to do some things NOW, like this:

Rural patrol has own risks

By Noah Haglund (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Thursday, August 7, 2008


Deputy Sheriff Dennis Compton shared a risky occupation with colleagues who patrol rural areas when most people are sound asleep.
Though most law enforcement officers are killed in urban areas, police work in less populated areas brings its own perils, especially at night. Problems may be fewer and farther between, but when they arise, deputies usually face them alone, with backup 20 minutes or more away.
"I've had a lot of people ask me over the years, 'Why don't you have two people in a patrol car?' " said Jeff Moore, executive director of the state Sheriff's Association. "It basically comes down to budgetary constraints."
Compton, 39, was shot dead while responding to a home alarm early Wednesday in the Smoaks area of northern Colleton County.
Michael Smith, chairman of the University of South Carolina's Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice, said no study he's seen can offer statistical proof that assaults on officers are more common in urban areas than in rural ones. But the discrepancy is well-established in law enforcement circles, he said.
Still, a beat measured in square miles, instead of square blocks, presents challenges.
"The danger that rural officers face is that they typically operate alone with assistance a long way away," Smith said. "Although it would be fairly standard to send two officers to an activated burglar alarm in urban areas, rural departments don't often have that luxury."
Even in most big cities, two officers in the same car is not the norm anymore. "But backup is often only minutes or even seconds away," Smith said.
Moore thinks that given the choice, most sheriffs and police chiefs would prefer to have two officers respond to calls. But that's often no safety guarantee, as recent shootings in South Carolina have shown.
Two Beaufort County deputies were shot to death in an ambush while responding to a domestic disturbance call in the Burton area near Beaufort on the afternoon of Jan. 8, 2002. On March 25 of last year, two Moncks Corner police officers were fatally shot on a daytime domestic disturbance call.
"The job in and of itself is inherently dangerous," Moore said. "That's why they wear bullet-proof vests to work every day.
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:44 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrone_det View Post
During bird hunting season, a lot of hunters hunt every evening. Instead of taking gun out of the trunk, putting gun back in the trunk, taking gun of out of the trunk, putting gun back in the trunk, they leave the gun in their vehicle. Others keep the gun in their vehicle for protection, which is defeated if you have to keep the gun at home every time you have to go to (or by) a school.

Sad that in 2008 people still feel the need to drive around with a gun for 'protection' in the Land of the Free.

People in other countries enjoy hunting but don't use that as an excuse to take the gun on the school run.



When someone is shooting up some place, you cannot sit around and wait.
You have to do some things NOW, like this:

You have to do things NOW because you foster a culture in which gun ownership is not just accepted but encouraged as a "God given ' right.

Didn't God give those countries the right to carry guns??

Why does these shooting incidents happen so much in America but hardly ever in Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan etc?

Could it possibly be related to the US gun culture and that lingering cowboy mentality?
Old 08-08-2008, 05:54 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
You have to do things NOW because you foster a culture in which gun ownership is not just accepted but encouraged as a "God given ' right.

Didn't God give those countries the right to carry guns??

Why does these shooting incidents happen so much in America but hardly ever in Canada, Australia, Europe, Japan etc?

Could it possibly be related to the US gun culture and that lingering cowboy mentality?
A majority of the shootings I see are the result of drug dealing. I'm concerned that we are going to end up like northern Mexico if we don't get the sense to legalize drugs to stop the financial incentive that fuels our drug dealers. I wish we had a society where few people used drugs. But its the illegality that causes the crime and violence. $100 a gram meth might deter some uses, but more often, it causes them to steal to support the habit.

There are violent Mexican drug gangs because they make millions off illegal drugs. Governments here make money because of "drug war" funding. The drug war is a flop. Legalize drugs, cut out the organized crime involvement, then deal with drug addiction.

The war on pot is really inane. Alcohol kills - I've seen way too many deaths caused by a drunk driver. I can't recall any pothead drivers killing anyone.
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:59 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrone_det View Post
A majority of the shootings I see are the result of drug dealing. I'm concerned that we are going to end up like northern Mexico if we don't get the sense to legalize drugs to stop the financial incentive that fuels our drug dealers. I wish we had a society where few people used drugs. But its the illegality that causes the crime and violence. $100 a gram meth might deter some uses, but more often, it causes them to steal to support the habit.

There are violent Mexican drug gangs because they make millions off illegal drugs. Governments here make money because of "drug war" funding. The drug war is a flop. Legalize drugs, cut out the organized crime involvement, then deal with drug addiction.

The war on pot is really inane. Alcohol kills - I've seen way too many deaths caused by a drunk driver. I can't recall any pothead drivers killing anyone.
I agree it makes sense to legalise, regulate and then tax marijuana. Although the fact it can be grown almost anywhere complicates the issue.

But that still leaves all the hard drugs, and the prescription drugs
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