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Gun Control Debate and defend whether or not you believe that the second amendment protects individual rights to bear arms.

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Old 05-09-2006, 10:18 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky
Interesting idea, but isn't that concept basically already in place with the 5-day waiting period process?
I think some of the aspects of what I discussed are already in place, in some means.
But I don't see anything set-up to ensure that prospective gun owners know what to do with a gun, or how to properly store it away from little people who shouldn't have it...
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Old 05-09-2006, 11:24 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
I still can't buy a bag of marijuana but I CAN go buy a weapon of personal destruction. Makes perfect sense to me!

Freedom to put a hole through a human? That is not a personal freedom to hold in high regard.

I understand the correlation between alcohol being capable of causing devastation but it certainly isn't designed for that purpose, whereas guns certainly are designed to kill.... and handguns designed to be easy to conceal.

Wouldn't a fair compromise be to allow larger weapons for personal saftey being that they are not easy to conceal?
I never said it made sense. I think pot should be legal too, remember?
Old 05-09-2006, 11:25 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
I think some of the aspects of what I discussed are already in place, in some means.
But I don't see anything set-up to ensure that prospective gun owners know what to do with a gun, or how to properly store it away from little people who shouldn't have it...
Some states have mandatory training courses.
Old 05-09-2006, 11:33 PM   #64 (permalink)
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You can't just go buy a gun in Massachusetts, I think it's easier to buy pot...
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Old 05-09-2006, 11:38 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
Well, maybe we should at least ban hard liquor too. It's the same thing.

Being drunk makes a person more likely to do something violent.
Soft liquor can get you just as drunk should we ban that aswell? Perhaps when your drunk you are more likely to fight someone but with a handgun your more likely to shot and kill someone. There is a difference.
As I leave you with restless liars and dealers on the take
Old 05-10-2006, 02:34 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayling
The problem with a gun is its so easy to kill someone with it accidently. The mind operates of impulse. Someone hurts you emotionaly/physicaly and you have a gun your mind logicaly tells you your pain will go away if you injure the threat. Its the minds self defense.
There are 44 million gun owners in the United States, and in 2004 there were 700 accidental deaths. That equates to around 0.002 accidental gun deaths per year.

By the way, there are some 700,000 Doctors in the United States and in 2004 there were 120,000 accidental deaths. That means there are 17.2 accidental deaths per doctor.

Hmmm you face a risk that is 8600 times greater in going to a doctor and dying accidently than you do of dying accidentally from a gun owner.

Unfortunately, the facts just don't support your argument.

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Old 05-10-2006, 02:45 AM   #67 (permalink)
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The simple fact remains that gun control laws only take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. Criminals find it difficult to buy guns legally. Most are restricted during the background check because of a criminal record. Criminals by their very nature purchase guns illegally. Washington D.C. has the most restrictive of all gun control laws, yet routinely leads the U.S. cities in homocides. For all practical purposes guns are banned in D.C. You cannot own one, you cannot keep one in your home, nor in your car, nor on your person.

According to your logic the number of murders should be less, yet they are higher. So much for logic.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
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Old 05-10-2006, 03:55 AM   #68 (permalink)
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First hkbajwa let me thank you for the nice things you said to me in your post


Quote:
Originally Posted by hkbajwa
hah.. lidwen you are lovely...

your arguments are super. but there is a general red thread i see and that is a lack of faith in your people and government. You contend that the government might screw you over and that there are people out there who only mean you harm.

I contend that this faith needs to be restored before my arguments will carry any weight.
hkjabwa, there is a quote by one of the founding fathers of our country:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom"
Thomas Jefferson

YES the government might screw us over. Politics attracts many power hungry persons - not all by a long shot mind you but an inordinate number of them.
And yes,
sadly there ARE a few people out there who only mean harm to other people. Can you deny it?
It would be true even if there had only been one murder or rape in the history of the world...and sadly the number is millions of times that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkjabwa
I believe that guns are a temporary measure that only deal with the symptom of a disease and not the disease itself.

The disease here is the fact that the US government has never completely convinced its people that it exists with the blessing of the people and FOR the people. Is it not scary that you consider your elected government a potential adversary whom you may have to take up arms against.
Maybe scary, but definitely realistic. Please see Niccolo Machiavelli's very practical instructions in The Prince about how to gain and maintain political power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkjabwa
Man is not built to be taught by violence. And violence or the threat of violence or potential for violence is not a solution to anybody's safety and security.
Isn't it? Consider the predicament in New Orleans, when some of those people were going around committing crimes on their stranded fellow survivors. That would have been obviated by a significant presence of law enforcement in the area to keep order during the crisis. Yes, law enforcement: with guns.
But they were not there; thus, young girls got raped and other people's dignity was pillaged also.
And that's only one example.
Hkjabwa,
Most people inherently want to be good. But not everyone. You simply cannot project this idealized portrait of human nature; it's not like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkjabwa
but seriously.. i think you are lovely
Ahhh....theeees eees as eeet SHOULD beee....
right back atcha

Last edited by Lidwen Wraith; 05-10-2006 at 04:48 AM.
Old 05-10-2006, 03:59 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Indago, thank you for all the good information - the more I learn, the more convinced I become about this.
Old 05-10-2006, 04:07 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
[to Katczinsky] There is not a chance in hell this statement is true.
On the contrary, it is manifestly true. The only error is that the post said guns would be out of the picture if they were outlawed.
Not even !
The difference would simply be that only jack-booted thugs from the government would have them...and of course, criminals.

Also hev, you said in another post that you are free to put a bullet through a human being.
Not so, unless in self defense.

Last edited by Lidwen Wraith; 05-10-2006 at 04:14 AM.
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