It's heartbreaking. By all accounts yesterday evening, the officers should have been able to take into custody all those involved in the origional confrontation...But out of 30+ people involved in the fight, they only were able to arrest 2 of the individuals and even then the others involved were screaming 'racist cops, racist cops'. And the two arrested? Caucasian.

Yet the victim last night that was shot was black, as was the shooter. And the two of them were the instigators in the first place of the origional confrontation? IF the cops hadn't felt so pressed, they may have been able to arrest ALL those involved, rather then arresting those that would cause the force less confrontation in the media.

Now, we have a young man who's dead and never have the chance to get out of the gang he was in...And we have another young man who will end up in jail or dead himself cause he decided to pull the trigger at a rival gang member...And if this plays out as other gang related incidents have...There will be more retaliation on the parts of both fractions, the violence esculating, and law abiding citizens of the nieghborhood being caught in the middle if not actually paying with their own lives for something they weren't involved in or even supported?

It's broke my heart listening to my nieghbors last night and today. People I've known most of my life and some just getting to know, elderly people worried that they can't afford at this stage of life to move and start all over again elsewhere...Talking about getting gun permits or renewing them, or conversations about their pulling out old guns and cleaning them up 'just in case'? Of younger neighbors with small families, who don't involve themselves in any troubles, worried to let their little ones out on the porches now?

Hard working people, the majority of my nieghbors. Just wanting a safe place to raise thier families or retire gracefully...So darn scared now that they'd jump if a twig broke. And the police looking as helpless as the rest of us, saying 'if only we'd been able to' while those involved are screaming racists and blaming the cops for having their hands tied?

I don't want to be held hostage in my own nieghborhood. I don't want my neighbors held hostage either by this element. Either we need to give law enforcement the capabilities to handle situations like this or create laws that will hold the criminals hostage in regards to how easily a person can obtain weapons that kill.

"Equal opportunity" gangs.

How modern!

How good is their health care plans and how much do they match in their 401k?

I know it sounds strange Baloney. The media paints gangs as one race basically. But there are gangs out there that have mixed memberships, like in our area. That's not saying there aren't one-race gangs as well, but in this area because the population itself is mixed, the gangs are also racially mixed. The one-race gangs tend to hang in the towns along the river (like St. Louis/East St. Louis) while further in their memberships become more diverse depending on the communities they reside in to begin with.

It's just a shame, in my opinion, that some kids/young adults see "futures" for themselves in gangs.

I remember a program around here were troubled kids/young adults would be taken to a maximum security prison to spend some time communicating with "lifers" when they were caught committing a minor crime just so they could see what their potential "future" could become.

And the lifers would tell them what prison life is really like.

And it would scare the hell out of at least some of the kids/young adults and make them think twice about their potential future.

Do they have a program like that by you?

Baloney...I wanted to add this which might help explain why the gangs in our area are so diverse...

Many of those involved in the gangs themselves, are either bi-racial or involved in bi-racial relationships themselves. So, since their personal families/personal relationships are bi-racial, that influences the memberships in those that get into the gang activities.

Not that I'm saying bi-racial is anything bad. Because some of the neighbors I have, who are concerned about this and we know, are either bi-racial or involved in bi-racial relationships of thier own.

As I've mentioned, it isn't the race of those involved that's the problem. But the level of disregard to authority/responsible citizenship that's causing the problems. Then throw in how the law enforcement handles situations because of their fear of the race card being played? And it does get played by those with the inclination to break/ignore the law it seems. Which still somehow manages to surprise me since this neighborhood has always been racially diversive and accepting to begin with.

Yep, they do have that program. Even put my kids in it. BUT, that's become so PC as well, that it's pretty darn useless. I remember when my kids went, the officer (female) doing the tour? Told them that all those stories about the 'bad things happening in jail/prison' were rumors. That it never happened on her shift and wasn't near as bad as the press made it sound?

Wanted to slap her silly personally. And the inmates she choose to introduce to the kids weren't any help either as they were inmates she choose that were the nicest?

Alot depends on which officers do the tours basically. And there's more of the PC type that's trying to off set the bad press then the hard nosed officers who realize a scare needs to be put into the kids that are at risk of becoming offenders themselves.

What I would do is collect all the law-abiding citizens in your area, walk downtown to the mayor's office, and demand that blind justice be served...cause you are all considering moving...and taking your tax dollars elsewhere.

Just like justice, the police are supposed to be blind to race.

And if these gangs are as racially diverse in your area as you say they are, then there really shouldn't be a "race issue"...even though some people might still see things that way.

An alternative, of course, is to live with the situation...although it sounds as if this is something you don't want to do.

Now that's a shame.

I guess those PC types care more about a prison's bad publicity than helping to influence kids/young adults into not committing crimes.

Why have the program at all if it is ineffective in its overall goal?

We're county so the Mayor could care less. Although, the city itself surrounds our neighborhood, his authority ends at the bottom of the hill and over the fence.

I dunno if you remember the special on 60 minutes and with the News Democrat (city newspaper that contacted 60 minutes)...Anyways, it did alot of damage to the image of our police forces. And any time anything major has to do with a non-white, the New Democrat itself immediately goes to press labeling it having to do with racial profiling/unfair treatment of minorities on the enforcement's part even before a case is begun to be investigated.

I agree with you. They should be blind to race in dealing with problems. Heck, even they agree that they shouldn't be dealing with it on the level of race...But the problem is when they try to deal with it in the correct manner, then News Democrat puts us on the national headlines and never correctly or unbiased towards law enforcement.

When our area first started showing signs of criminal behavior, we did everything we could to stop it. Ran out the drug houses, broke up the prostitute rings, pushed the gangs out we thought. We've actually had almost 2 years of peace in our neighborhood cause we took an active stand against it. But as I said, a few months ago empty houses were re-rented. And unfortunately those they were rented to were the very element we had removed prior. This time though, rather then a gradual building up of problems, it went straight into violent confrontations and murder?

In the meantime, other neighbors have gotten older. And much less inclined to get involved as well.

I don't want to move personally. I just don't see a way around it now. If it had been a gradual build up, we could have had a chance to stop it before it reached that level. But that oppertunity didn't have a chance to happen in how quickly this time it did esculate.

I'm just damn glad I live out in the country and we don't have problems like that. However, I'm not naive enough to believe it couldn't happen here. I really symphasize with your situation.