Originally Posted by knot_e_lady

What really needs to happen is to get rid of the insurance companies. That's where the real money goes.

Originally Posted by Rod

Quote:
Everything is subsidized Fx.

I am aware that many things are subsidized. But that doesn't mean it is solely run by the government. There's a difference.

These are the issues that need to be considered and addressed as the new programs are initiated.

Or we could just make sure the system we have in place now is better regulated.

Oversite does little good when people do not think it is also their problem to help solve. It is easier for them to join in and become a portion of the system that is already corrupt for their own gain.

I disagree. If you don't think the system we have now can be changed for the positive, then what makes you thing total government control will be any better? I don't. I think the biggest problems in health care is excessive litigation creating too much risk which comes to bite everyone in the insurance ass.

If you truly do not consider it your problem then you actually should not even consider discussing the matter.

You might have a point there.

So you have three years of service and now you are collecting a lifetime bonus. From the information you have given the other tax payers support you. From the information you have given it appears that you believe that you have the right to say I'm compfy so screw the rest of the population?

Actually my benefits come nowhere near supporting my current lifestyle with my wife. But to put it plainly, Yes.

From your previous post we can assume that your theory would be, "Let's just put them all in jail that will solve the social issues when these other people have not been as blessed as I have."

If they commit crimes based on "hate" due to their issues that they themselves created, yes. Especially in the scenario you mentioned that led to my rebut. I doubt health care is gonna help that much.

When you cry out for justice should we simply say, "Your failure not my problem."

I fail to see what "justice" you are referring to.

Do you have any idea how corrupt many of the prison programs are?

I hope to never find out. Again, not my problem. I don't even pick toilet paper off the floor in mens bathrooms.

Personally I am not into creating more disfunctional people. We have plenty already. I would rather encourage people with an "I can try".

And I am aware the situations occur that will result in just that happening. That's why they make social programs and such. If those programs fail, well, we have police protections. I made it out of the projects, and if I had to, I feel I could do it again.

If she had not help would she have been able to do this? I doubt it very much. I was a single mom at eighteen with two small children and less than a ninth grade education. At twenty-five I had started my own contracting firm by twenty-six I was blacklisted for "rocking the boat" over extreme sexual harrassment. Rocking the boat consisted of simply asking for the harrassment to be stopped. If I had not had a help from others that felt it was their problem also I may have remained on the welfare roles for a long time.

I have no problem with social programs that help people go to school, help people get back on their feet after a setback, and stuff like that. You seem to be jumping to conclusions.

Just exactly what other ways are we talking about here?

Originally Posted by fxashun

To name a few. Felony charges that render you ineligible for help from the government, a bunch of kids and baby momma that well render you never to be able to get ahead due to "baby notes", and jacking up your credit and defaulting on stuff that also renders you ineligible for many things these days. EVERYTHING is dependent on your credit report.

Originally Posted by Rod

Again some of these things you mention are not always what they appear to be.
The banking industry and insurance industry is satiated with fraud and corruption.
There are cases where the financial industries have committed and admitted to fraud.
In the past few years they have paid millions to states that have sued them.
The people affected by the criminal activities of these industries many times never get the opportunity to recover.
If they lose it and go after the "System" then they are considered criminals and the majority of these CEO's got away with their criminal activity because they could afford to payoff those who rule the "System".

And which one of the three reasons does this cover? Sounds like you are great at trying to find ways to make victims out of people, but not too keen on personal responsibility and discipline. If you charge a bunch of stuff on a 26% credit card, you are screwed if you don't pay it off every month. If you buy a $300K house on an adjustable loan that you can't afford, you are screwed. If you just don't pay your bills when they come in each month, you are screwed. It's up to you to know what you are signing when you start a contract. One of the most basic things to learn is "know what you are signing".


"Or we could just make sure the system we have in place now is better regulated."
I would agree for the moment use the system in place. Then work towards making it a more effective medical system, so everyone gets at the very least proper medical attention.

Originally Posted by fxashun

And which one of the three reasons does this cover? Sounds like you are great at trying to find ways to make victims out of people, but not too keen on personal responsibility and discipline. If you charge a bunch of stuff on a 26% credit card, you are screwed if you don't pay it off every month. If you buy a $300K house on an adjustable loan that you can't afford, you are screwed. If you just don't pay your bills when they come in each month, you are screwed. It's up to you to know what you are signing when you start a contract. One of the most basic things to learn is "know what you are signing".

Originally Posted by Rod

There are those cases where people pay that much for a house and some who have a few credit cards.
That is not what I am talking about at all. As much as you would like to twist it into only making people personall responsible that is not the case.

I'm not twisting anything. My original comment was that people screw their lives in many ways that render themselves unemployable or worse. Then you asked "how" and I gave my reasons. All of those reasons I gave are due to the person's actions. That's not twisting a dang thing, it's just telling the truth. No one told someone to charge $10k on a 20% interest credit card they couldn't afford in the first place. No one told someone to make x number of kids by x number of women. No one forces someone to commit a felony. No twisting needed at all.

We have had certain banks, insurance companies and real estate companies robbing our federal coffiers at an alarming rate with fraudulent documents.

A couple that buys a home for $60,000.00 makes payments for eight years then gets a two payments behind because one of them lost their $8 dollar an hour job. Can lose their home in a heart beat. When they bought the home they had no clue that the mortgage company and the realtor where drafting false documents in order to make them that loan. They had spent every extra dime they had improving the home so it is not worth $120,000.00.
The mortgage company gets 85% of their money from FANNIE MAY. An investor in the group gets to buy the house at auction. The realtor gets to resale the property again making a better commision than the first time around.
That poor couple they schemed. Their screwed. They get to start over. They move to another state and will spend years trying to regain what they worked so hard for. And don't try saying where is law enforcement or why didn't they get a lawyer because they all refused to even look at the matter.
I looked at these peoples paperwork personally. they were down right shafted and it has been happening throughout the country.
You can make up blank scenarios all day long but the truth is the working class person is screwed each and every day and people with additudes like yours helps to do it.

As far as the health situation goes. I believe there is a means by which everyone can recieve at the very least the basics and we can all foot the bill.

Originally Posted by knot_e_lady

What really needs to happen is to get rid of the insurance companies. That's where the real money goes.

Originally Posted by knot_e_lady

What really needs to happen is to get rid of the insurance companies. That's where the real money goes.