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Health Care Debate and defend your thoughts on the current health care system. Compare and contrast the current health care system of the US to other countries.

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Old 11-11-2007, 10:08 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Or the person who has never paid a single dime in health insurance and doesn't make enough money to pay federal taxes, gets an expensive illness and then it's "inhumane" when the people who DO all of the above feel it's unfair for them to have to foot the bill for this person. I don't think so.

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Old 11-11-2007, 04:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski View Post
So it would seem that the lady mislead the insurance company, signed a form she did not fill out without reviewing it for accuracy, and of course it is the insurance company who is at fault. It is people like this that cause the companies to have such high premiums in the first place.

At some point like it or not, we have to hold people accountable for their actions, if we do not, then we will never, and I mean NEVER, get to the point where the ideal of this country will succeed.

Damn, citizenship is such hard work.

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How would you suggest a hairdresser raises $200,000 to pay for her cancer treatment?

Or should we just drop her at the edge of the forest and leave her to die gracefully??

The whole point is that, in a civilised society, we shouldn't expect citizens to qualify for vital healthcare treatment based on their net worth. That's how it was in feudal society.

Health care and the profit motive cannot co-exist.
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
How would you suggest a hairdresser raises $200,000 to pay for her cancer treatment?

Or should we just drop her at the edge of the forest and leave her to die gracefully??

The whole point is that, in a civilised society, we shouldn't expect citizens to qualify for vital healthcare treatment based on their net worth. That's how it was in feudal society.

Health care and the profit motive cannot co-exist.
Insurance companies only expect you to pay for insurance BEFORE you get sick, and make sure the information you give them is accurate so that they can charge the correct premium. I see no problem with that.
Even in a civilized society, people are gonna get pissed when the inevitable news reports come out about the able bodied people that pay nothing into the system end up getting crazy expensive treatments. Then you have the same issues we have when they started cutting people off welfare. Waa poor, waaa disadvantaged, waaa minorities. Life costs money, you have to prepare for it. We have programs for the sick, elderly, and handicapped. Everybody else needs to do what they can to keep up with the rest of us.
Old 11-11-2007, 05:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Insurance companies only expect you to pay for insurance BEFORE you get sick, and make sure the information you give them is accurate so that they can charge the correct premium. I see no problem with that.
Even in a civilized society, people are gonna get pissed when the inevitable news reports come out about the able bodied people that pay nothing into the system end up getting crazy expensive treatments. Then you have the same issues we have when they started cutting people off welfare. Waa poor, waaa disadvantaged, waaa minorities. Life costs money, you have to prepare for it. We have programs for the sick, elderly, and handicapped. Everybody else needs to do what they can to keep up with the rest of us.
The imbalance you mention is true of any kind of insurance.

Some drivers have several accidents a year, others pay premiums for years and never claim. Ditto house insurance etc.

That's how insurance works.

But you still haven't explained how that LA hairdresser is going to come up with $200,000 for her chemotherapy??

She can't necessarily expect to get that kind of treatment from a state hospital.

The only fair way is some kind of single payer system, as with education.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
The imbalance you mention is true of any kind of insurance.

Some drivers have several accidents a year, others pay premiums for years and never claim. Ditto house insurance etc.

That's how insurance works.

But you still haven't explained how that LA hairdresser is going to come up with $200,000 for her chemotherapy??

She can't necessarily expect to get that kind of treatment from a state hospital.

The only fair way is some kind of single payer system, as with education.
Bad drivers pay more than good drivers. Drivers with several accidents and tickets can get dropped by insurance companies. Many home insurance companies are dropping people if they make frivolous claims.

I really don't know what that hairdresser is gonna do. But I also don't know the real story behind the inaccuracies on her application. Like I said in the beginning, nearly ever time you hear a story like this, there's something iffy going on. It reminds me of all those "victims" of adjustable rate mortgages. Weren't easily obtainable mortgages the result of "victims" that couldn't qualify for regular mortgages?

Education is different than health care.
Old 11-12-2007, 01:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Well what can i say... the iniequities of insurance based healthcare are just too numerous to mention. The simple fact is that there are BILLIONS being pumped into the industry with the ultimate purpose being to inflate profit margins.

There is no humanity in it and there is a VERY CLEAR conflict of interest. Insurance companies make money by insuring HEALTHY people and discarding unhealthy people..

If, instead of inflating profit margins, that same money was pumped into public healthcare, then you would not be facing such tragedies.

Fxashun... you keep saying that it's important whether this woman lied... you know what is THE MOST IMPORTANT?? that she SURVIVES dammit..

How can it be that the right to make a PROFIT is considered more important to protect than is the RIGHT FOR A HUMAN TO SURVIVE.

EVEN IF SHE LIED.. does that mean it's "fair" to deny her healthcare? If you had no other way out would YOU not lie?? is there anybody on this forum that would not lie?? Since this woman's concern for her own survival is INFINITELY MORE IMPORTANT than how big a profit the insurance company makes, does it not sicken you to see her being sacrificed for profit?

It is merely a measure of the gross negligence towards human life ( in favor of profit margins ) that is becoming endemic in the US culture. It seems that it is more important to safeguard the profitability of the insurance company than it is to actually save lives.

Whatever you can say, universal healthcae has the welfare of the people as its priority, whereas medical insurance DOES NOT. I would personally rather have a cumbersome governmental system that had my health and wellbeing as its priority, instead of a complex system that ALLEGEDLY wokrs "faster" and is willing to drop my in the gutter to protect their bottom line.

I don't say this about many things, but i think this glaring travesty against humanity is a truly disturbing and disgusting aspect of US culture.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Or the person who has never paid a single dime in health insurance and doesn't make enough money to pay federal taxes, gets an expensive illness and then it's "inhumane" when the people who DO all of the above feel it's unfair for them to have to foot the bill for this person. I don't think so.
it seems like you think the guys DESERVES to die for being poor and uninsured... oh but yeah i forget.. everybody who is poor and sick in the US, is so because they are "lazy".

You know the whole concept about loving your fellow/ neighbor/ brother, means you don't fucking judge whether a person deserves to live.. A decent human being would want EVERYBODY to survive.. not just those that cost him nothing to keep alive..

I am truly appalled by the complete callousness with which you can sentence a man to death for not anticipating his sickness and for not making enough money to pay for it..

I hope to god that you get universal healthcare shoved down your throat.... it may teach you a thing or two about compassion.

Compassion does not depend on the insurance status or income bracket of the person to whom we show it.
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Old 11-12-2007, 06:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkbajwa View Post
it seems like you think the guys DESERVES to die for being poor and uninsured... oh but yeah i forget.. everybody who is poor and sick in the US, is so because they are "lazy".

You know the whole concept about loving your fellow/ neighbor/ brother, means you don't fucking judge whether a person deserves to live.. A decent human being would want EVERYBODY to survive.. not just those that cost him nothing to keep alive..

I am truly appalled by the complete callousness with which you can sentence a man to death for not anticipating his sickness and for not making enough money to pay for it..

I hope to god that you get universal healthcare shoved down your throat.... it may teach you a thing or two about compassion.

Compassion does not depend on the insurance status or income bracket of the person to whom we show it.
What a compassionate post. Typical. If you don't agree, you are callous. That's bullshit.
Everything in the world costs. The medicine, the doctors, the nurses, and supplies. Most of the rest of us have realized that and we do what we have to do to provide for our families. But you think I need someone to reach into my funds for my family and provide care for someone who for some reason hasn't prepared for "life"? I think not. I don't call that callous, I call it making sure I am taking care of my own responsibilities before a take care of someone else's.
If a teenage girl starts having babies at 12, never finishes school, and screws herself in the ass to the point where she'll never be able to take care of herself or her child, that's not my problem. Even though it is MADE my problem when the child turns out to be a criminal, as statistics show seems to happen in cases such as that.
We pay taxes to provide for basic child medical care in her case, we pay taxes for education for the child. And people that earn a certain amount, even pay more tax so that that single mother can write off more of her income so that she won't have to pay tax. If all that fails, we pay taxes for police so we can pick the child up if he does become a criminal. So now you are suggesting that we pay even MORE taxes to pay for the teenage girl's healthcare too? F that.
Lazy is but one of the reasons that people end up poor. But we already have programs for the disabled. We have insurance for the healthy people, working cars, and occupied houses. So that when the health fails, the car crashes, and the tornado rips the house apart, you have something to take care of your losses. If someone hasn't figured out how to properly protect themselves, and that insurance is almost as important as food, something else we don't just give away to everyone, why is that my problem?
Old 11-12-2007, 10:30 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
But here again is a disclaimer in the forum..
Cool Running :: Efficiency of Health Insurance
Health Net contended that Bates failed to disclose a heart problem and shaved about 35 pounds off her weight on her application. Had it known her true weight or that she had been screened for a heart condition related to her use of the diet drug combination known as fen-phen, it would not have covered her in the first place, the company said."The case was rescinded based on inaccurate information on the individual's application," Health Net spokesman Brad Kieffer said.
Bates said she already had insurance when a broker came by her shop in the summer of 2003, and said she now regretted letting him in the door. She agreed to apply to Health Net when the broker told her he could save her money, Bates said.
She added that she never intended to mislead the company. Bates said the broker filled out the application, asking questions about her medical history as she styled a client's hair in her busy shop and he talked to another client waiting for an appointment at the counter. She maintained that she answered his questions as best she could and did not know whether he asked every question on the application.

Be back in a bit, gotta watch a movie with my son.
KNX-1070 in Los Angeles ran the item on Friday night, and Health Net denied the reports of paying bonuses to the worker because she dropped the hairdresser from the ranks of the insured. They claimed that, as you said, she failed to mention other health problems.

It seems that the hairdresser was distracted from her work when the broker asked her questions. She should have told the broker to wait until she was finished, or ask the broker to come back. Further, she have had someone there to make sure she understood the broker's pitch.

If it was me, I would have shopped online for health insurance instead of have someone talk me into buying health insurance.

When my company once told me that I should start investigating buying my own health insurance, I researched online. Health Net, Aetna, and Pacific Care were among the companies came up. There were more, though. But I won't get into that as they were displaying what you can get for your money.

However, I am still insured by the same health insurance I've had for years, and my company pays for it.

I guess it was too easy for the hairdresser to turn down a bargain. The brokers are out there to make money. If there is any responsibility, then the broker should shoulder most of it.

I feel that Health Net has an obligation to care for the hair dresser. When they fail to do that, then litigation was all she had left. Health Net should be obligated to pay out of court expenses. Otherwise, they could be looking at a woman who may day if she does not get the care she needs.
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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So you can claim distraction, falsify documents, and then leave the corporation responsible? That doesn't sound right to me.
Health Net has the right to accurate information on the application as well.
Many companies can fire you if you falsify items on the employment application, I don't see how this is any different. You are responsible for what you sign. If not, why sign applications and things like that at all? Your signature means nothing in that case.
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