Another example of America's shameful health care snafu - Page 6

knot_e_lady · 11-13-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I'm sorry I paraphrased...

"She added that she never intended to mislead the company. Bates said the broker filled out the application, asking questions about her medical history as she styled a client's hair in her busy shop and he talked to another client waiting for an appointment at the counter. She maintained that she answered his questions as best she could and did not know whether he asked every question on the application."

If I were asked if I were honest about an application I signed my name to, I would not have been so vague. Yes or no answers. She was busted and she knows it.

I'm sorry, did you see the quote I made about the forms being confusing and vague?

garysher · 11-13-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knot_e_lady

I'm sorry, did you see the quote I made about the forms being confusing and vague?

This discussion avoids the central point.

How are sick people supposed to pay for health care treatment?

Insurance companies don't want to insure them - infact they incentivise employees to dump sick patients' policies.

So how does the average American get chemotherapy for example? Do you go to the ER and wait in line with the accident and gunshot victims?

Not only is the American system woefully inadequate it's also hideously inefficient.

fxashun · 11-13-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knot_e_lady

I'm sorry, did you see the quote I made about the forms being confusing and vague?

"But state regulators and plaintiffs' lawyers have argued that the applications often are vague and confusing, and that it's not fair for insurers to review applications only after members file an expensive claim."

You mean this generic quote that wasn't talking about this particular case, just cases "such as these".

fxashun · 11-13-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

This discussion avoids the central point.

How are sick people supposed to pay for health care treatment?

Insurance companies don't want to insure them - infact they incentivise employees to dump sick patients' policies.

So how does the average American get chemotherapy for example? Do you go to the ER and wait in line with the accident and gunshot victims?

Not only is the American system woefully inadequate it's also hideously inefficient.

The "average" American has insurance and completed the application truthfully and knew what they were signing. People are incentivised to do their job. If that job is to go over people's applications and look for any fraud, well that's just their job. Everybody has to do what they have to do to make sure THEY have the necessities of life.

This reminds me of the problem we are having now with the adjustable rate mortgages and people saying they "didn't know" what they were getting into. Even though all the facts are on the TIL disclosure.

highway80west · 11-13-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

This discussion avoids the central point.

How are sick people supposed to pay for health care treatment?

Insurance companies don't want to insure them - infact they incentivise employees to dump sick patients' policies.

So how does the average American get chemotherapy for example? Do you go to the ER and wait in line with the accident and gunshot victims?

Not only is the American system woefully inadequate it's also hideously inefficient.

I suppose outside of litigation and/or maybe MediCal, I guess the patient can always appeal the elected officials for help, state and/or federal.

Wouldn't the medical profession appeal to the state, or help their patients apply for state funds to get the help their patient need?

garysher · 11-13-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highway80west

I suppose outside of litigation and/or maybe MediCal, I guess the patient can always appeal the elected officials for help, state and/or federal.

Wouldn't the medical profession appeal to the state, or help their patients apply for state funds to get the help their patient need?

It's not the doctor's responsibility to pursue payment and insurance options for their uninsured patients.

It's the doctor's responsibility to make his patients better, or help prevent them from becoming ill.

Visit any doctor's surgery and you can see the overhead he already has to carry employing teams of administrators to sit on the phone and argue with insurance administrators all day.

Wouldn't it be great if the doctor could spend all that money on nurses, radiologists, pathologists, equipment - in other words spend it on helping people get better??

garysher · 11-13-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

The "average" American has insurance and completed the application truthfully and knew what they were signing.

The average American gets insurance through their employer, and all those hidden costs are passed on to consumers just like a tax.

For example Ford spends more money on health insurance than on steel. It adds $1000 to the price of an average car.

But self-employed Americans like this hairdresser have fewer, more expensive options

People are incentivised to do their job. If that job is to go over people's applications and look for any fraud, well that's just their job.

What a mean-spirited way to earn a living - trying to find ways to duck out of paying healthcare bills and dumping sick customers!

Is this how America treats its sick?

Everybody has to do what they have to do to make sure THEY have the necessities of life.

Again, you're not answering the question about how this hairdresser, and millions of other Americans like her who are self-employed or work in small businesses, can provide themselves with the necessity of affordable healthcare

This reminds me of the problem we are having now with the adjustable rate mortgages and people saying they "didn't know" what they were getting into. Even though all the facts are on the TIL disclosure.

Except getting foreclosed on your house won't cause you to die.

Most foreclosures are caused because house prices have fallen and consumers cannot refinance. That's hard even for the experts to forecast house price downturn.

And it's made worse by the greed of the banks who sell on mortgages so it's nearly impossible to renegotiate them.

fxashun · 11-13-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysher

Except getting foreclosed on your house won't cause you to die.
Most foreclosures are caused because house prices have fallen and consumers cannot refinance. That's hard even for the experts to forecast house price downturn.
And it's made worse by the greed of the banks who sell on mortgages so it's nearly impossible to renegotiate them.

I agree on the falling housing costs preventing refinancing. But the falling home costs are also being caused by loans being foreclosed on and being more difficult to get.

I also agree that insurance is being paid by employers. But then again, that still sounds like screwing all the working people to take care of those that won't work. Unless they make an ungraduated special tax that can't be deducted, I won't agree to it. And make sure no one is covered that hasn't contributed.

The same way a majority of other Americans pay for their insurance. THIS lady screwed herself. She isn't the last person and won't be the last person that this is gonna happen to as long as people don't take full responsibility for their actions.

As far as having "that type" of job, I'm sure it wouldn't surprise you if I told you that I used to be a collector for a car financing company.
I loved my job.

garysher · 11-13-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxashun

I agree on the falling housing costs preventing refinancing. But the falling home costs are also being caused by loans being foreclosed on and being more difficult to get.

I also agree that insurance is being paid by employers. But then again, that still sounds like screwing all the working people to take care of those that won't work. Unless they make an ungraduated special tax that can't be deducted, I won't agree to it. And make sure no one is covered that hasn't contributed.

People without children help pay to educate other people's children. How would you feel if that system was ended and you had to pay $50 a day to send your boy to school??

When the financial burden is shared its much more manageable for each individual, even healthy people who rarely need any care.

The same way a majority of other Americans pay for their insurance. THIS lady screwed herself. She isn't the last person and won't be the last person that this is gonna happen to as long as people don't take full responsibility for their actions.

How do you suggest she take responsibility for contracting cancer?

As far as having "that type" of job, I'm sure it wouldn't surprise you if I told you that I used to be a collector for a car financing company.
I loved my job.

Even so that's different from paying for an illness that wasn't a personal choice - unlike a car.

fxashun · 11-13-2007, 05:06 PM

People without children help pay to educate other people's children. How would you feel if that system was ended and you had to pay $50 a day to send your boy to school??
When the financial burden is shared its much more manageable for each individual, even healthy people who rarely need any care.

Everyone pays school tax because everyone benefits from an educated society. Building a school and an institution to educate "children" is much different than a system for the "individual". Health insurance is a bit more personal. That's the impetus behind the drive to end welfare.

How do you suggest she take responsibility for contracting cancer?

I suggest she take responsibility for making sure she answered everything on her application correctly. Catching breast cancer wasn't her fault, unless she was a smoker...
FOXNews.com - Smoking-Breast Cancer Link Appears Stronger - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News

Even so that's different from paying for an illness that wasn't a personal choice - unlike a car.

Actually paying for health insurance IS a personal choice.

And in some states, there is no compulsory liability insurance on autos. So carrying liability insurance is also a personal choice. And even here in GA, where it is illegal not to have liability insurance, many people choose not to insure their car. That's why I carry uninsured motorist insurance on my vehicles. Because who is gonna fix someone's car or pay any medical bills after one of those uninsured people hit them. Insurance is as much a necessity as housing IMHO.
You HAVE to protect yourself.

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