Medicaid - Page 11

OhDear · 01-31-2008, 07:23 AM

Also as in the article, I do believe that because one does suffer an addiction, that does not in any way negate but nearly rather substantiates the devastating effects of a real disability.

When one is facing a life as not functioning to the capacity that they had or that they see others have, it can be quite traumatic and turning to chemical abuse may well be a reaction.

This is not in any way to diminish the need for disability provisions, but in my view, it further shows that the need is basic to their survival.

BUT then I would say that there be mandated therapies to recover from the addiction as much as medical helps for the disability itself.

OhDear

CrazyFlamingos · 01-31-2008, 08:39 AM

I must be reading you ladies wrong.

Do you really believe that an out of control addict or alcoholic is not disabled?

OhDear · 01-31-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos

I must be reading you ladies wrong.

Do you really believe that an out of control addict or alcoholic is not disabled?

I can only speak for myself here on this CF. I believe that there is an underlying cause for addictions. And that if the monies are spent to provide for an addict, then the addict must undergo treatment for the addiction itself. Whether by primary or secondary disability.

But in the cases that I believe mostly have witnessed, the addict had a true physical or mental disability that was reacted to by the "out of control" practices of substance abuse.

I think that the problem some see here is that IF the alcohol and drug addiction are the only disabling factor, they do not see that as warranting long term status as disabled and the allowance of provisions by the government.

Personally I see that as no different than the morbidly obese who get benefits for being disabled. There is a number of obvious medical complications that ensue when one is overweight or addicted to food same as addicted to drugs or alcohol. In these instances, I don't believe in uncategorically labelling them as disabled. But to have some kind of watch on them with mandated treatments. To not only get them off the substances but also weaned off the government rendered helps. So that they are there for the next guy.

But I have seen a number of kids that were diagnosed as ADD. And yet they sold their adderall or ritalin on the street. It was in the newspaper here. Now some of them were over 18, kicked out of their homes, and getting benefits as disabled for their diagnosis. And yet, they were not using the drugs prescribed for anything other than a bartering tool to get other drugs. I wonder what can be done to truly help these kind of folk? Help without enabling...

OhDear

no rights · 01-31-2008, 09:29 AM

My view on drug addicts and alcoholics is that the system works against them. When they are caught or arrested they get fined,their cash confiscated and get thrown back out on the street to go do it all over again.

What I think should be done is instead of punishing drug addicts and alcoholics is use the drug money thats confiscated from drug dealers to get the addicts and alcoholics the help they need. Put them in a drug treatment program instead of jail. Get them counseling and find them a job.

The system is a business and a means of revenue for the government and its wrong in my opinion to exploit addictions.

When the government seizes tons of drugs they keep it and under cover police use it to sell to addicts or funnel it back on the streets to bust more drug dealers to and confiscate all the cash again. Its a big cycle that won't ever end.

OhDear · 01-31-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no rights

My view on drug addicts and alcoholics is ...

When the government seizes tons of drugs they keep it and under cover police use it to sell to addicts or funnel it back on the streets to bust more drug dealers to and confiscate all the cash again. Its a big cycle that won't ever end.

Tell me where the police are doing that! I mean, really NR...if you know about it, then so do any number of other people and there would be a "crackdown" no pun intended, on the PD's in any city where that is actually happening.

I feel that there has been too much disrespect to the "boys in blue" and they are being wrongly judged by your comment there. So fire away if you can, but I want cited data.

OhDear

CrazyFlamingos · 01-31-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

I can only speak for myself here on this CF. I believe that there is an underlying cause for addictions. And that if the monies are spent to provide for an addict, then the addict must undergo treatment for the addiction itself. Whether by primary or secondary disability.

But in the cases that I believe mostly have witnessed, the addict had a true physical or mental disability that was reacted to by the "out of control" practices of substance abuse.

I think that the problem some see here is that IF the alcohol and drug addiction are the only disabling factor, they do not see that as warranting long term status as disabled and the allowance of provisions by the government.

Personally I see that as no different than the morbidly obese who get benefits for being disabled. There is a number of obvious medical complications that ensue when one is overweight or addicted to food same as addicted to drugs or alcohol. In these instances, I don't believe in uncategorically labelling them as disabled. But to have some kind of watch on them with mandated treatments. To not only get them off the substances but also weaned off the government rendered helps. So that they are there for the next guy.

But I have seen a number of kids that were diagnosed as ADD. And yet they sold their adderall or ritalin on the street. It was in the newspaper here. Now some of them were over 18, kicked out of their homes, and getting benefits as disabled for their diagnosis. And yet, they were not using the drugs prescribed for anything other than a bartering tool to get other drugs. I wonder what can be done to truly help these kind of folk? Help without enabling...

OhDear

Addiction is a mental illness. A lot of research has been done that indicates that there is an inborn inclination to become addicted. Those without it can drink alcohol and dabble with drugs and simply walk away from them when they no longer hold their interest.

And if person born with addictive predisposition never tries addictive substances then there is no problem. But once he/she does partake, it often becomes beyond his/her ability to control.

Of course, not all of them are unable to function in society. There is a term that is used in the addiction treatment community, "functional addict." (Or "functional alcoholic") I have personally known at least a couple of these whose alcoholism never caused them to lose their ability to work.

But in those where it progresses past that point, it is as true a disability as if they had their legs cut off or sank into the depths of depression.

You might as well say that we should not give disability to schizophrenics or people with bi-polar disorder who do not properly take their drugs. In their case, distrust of the medication is part an parcel of the disorder itself. And many of them find the drugs almost as disabling as the disease itself. And the only way to mandate that they take their drugs is to have someone give them the medication daily. I suspect it is cheaper to give them a piddling little check every month than it would be to employ people to administer such programs

I agree that there should be mandated therapy for all sorts of disorders. And people who are able to work if they are reeducated in a different career should also be required to do so.

But good luck getting those programs going in most places. In the short run, treatment and reeducation are much more expensive than just issuing a disability check every month. And our government inevitably looks at expenditures in terms of the importance of short term expenditures outweighing longterm benefits.

And what you say about mandated treatment for the obese disturbs me somewhat. How far would you see this go?

Would you mandate gastric bypass for those who are not able to lose weight through other methods? Even though it carries the risk of severe complications-- including possibly death? Would you force someone to take this risk in order to return to the workforce?

I fear that this has rambled a bit. Sorry.

no rights · 01-31-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

Tell me where the police are doing that! I mean, really NR...if you know about it, then so do any number of other people and there would be a "crackdown" no pun intended, on the PD's in any city where that is actually happening.

I feel that there has been too much disrespect to the "boys in blue" and they are being wrongly judged by your comment there. So fire away if you can, but I want cited data.

OhDear

I'm not judging the police. But thats what happens. Where do you think under cover police get the drugs to sell from? They sure don't go out and buy it. You can find proof that under cover police sell drugs to addicts to arrest them for buying drugs on the news,documentary's and cop shows.

There is no data of this and there never will be because its an under cover operation. But the police and FBI do this all the time. The FBI will even use drugs with drug dealers while they are investigating them.

But my main point is that addicts should not be punished when arrested with drugs. They should be put in a treatment facility so they can detox,get counseling and get a job.

CrazyFlamingos · 01-31-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhDear

Tell me where the police are doing that! I mean, really NR...if you know about it, then so do any number of other people and there would be a "crackdown" no pun intended, on the PD's in any city where that is actually happening.

I feel that there has been too much disrespect to the "boys in blue" and they are being wrongly judged by your comment there. So fire away if you can, but I want cited data.

OhDear

Not sure how widespread the practices that NR describes are. But over the course of my lifetime there have been two such cases busted by the Feds and/or State Police in my little rural county. So you are right; there was a crackdown. But that doesn't change the fact that the "boys in blue" behaved like criminals until they were busted.

One involved our county sheriff and several deputies, the other involved drug enforcement officers from the city police department.

I cannot give you links because one was about 25 years ago and the other about 15 years ago. You can take my word for it or not.

BTW, it would be impossible to cite data as to the law enforcement officers who are still getting away with such things because, if they are getting away with it, no one officially knows.

no rights · 01-31-2008, 10:04 AM

I think its very widespread. There are narcotics officers in every city in the country.

CrazyFlamingos · 01-31-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no rights

I'm not judging the police. But thats what happens. Where do you think under cover police get the drugs to sell from? They sure don't go out and buy it. You can find proof that under cover police sell drugs to addicts to arrest them for buying drugs on the news,documentary's and cop shows.

There is no data of this and there never will be because its an under cover operation. But the police and FBI do this all the time. The FBI will even use drugs with drug dealers while they are investigating them.

But my main point is that addicts should not be punished when arrested with drugs. They should be put in a treatment facility so they can detox,get counseling and get a job.

Ah, I misunderstood. You are talking about undercover cops posing as dealers. I thought you meant those who turn it for their own profit -- which I believe happens but is probably not very common.

But undercover cops using confiscated drugs to pose as dealers is, indeed, quite common. I haven't tried searching for references but I suspect one could find thousands with any search engine one chooses.

And I agree with you that addicts need treatment, not punishment.

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