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Health Care Debate and defend your thoughts on the current health care system. Compare and contrast the current health care system of the US to other countries.

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Old 04-15-2006, 11:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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From USA Daily:
Quote:
How Illegal Aliens Destroy America’s Health Care

By Scott A. Lauf

February 20, 2003 -- Over one million illegal aliens – mostly Mexicans – sneak into the U.S. every year costing Americans untold billions of dollars and creating chaos in every community they invade. Health care for these illegal aliens is one burden that is tapping the pocketbooks of Americans and decimating the quality of care in the process.

Under a federal law known as the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, illegal aliens can receive emergency medical care at U.S. hospitals – and we, the taxpayers, pick up the tab through higher insurance premiums, fees, and taxes. Indeed, thousands of illegal aliens show up in emergency rooms of border hospitals every year and the costs are staggering. The U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition estimates that emergency medical treatment for illegal aliens in the year 2000 was over $200 million for 77 border-area hospitals in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. The costs are nearly a billion dollars when other states are factored in.

In Mexico, the people are well aware of this law and exploit it to the nth degree. Illegal Mexicans willingly brave the most dangerous desert crossings of our southwest border with the knowledge that if their bodies cannot take it and they are picked up by the Border Patrol, they will be taken to an American hospital and receive free medical care. Mexican women who are nine months pregnant are another favorite patient at border hospitals. They too risk their lives – and the life of their unborn child – so they can deliver their babies in an American hospital. They know that by having an “anchor baby” on U.S. soil, their child gains immediate citizenship, and they, as mothers, are allowed to stay in the U.S. indefinitely.

In fact, one doesn’t even have to be on U.S. soil to receive free medical care. Believe it or not, some Mexicans in need of emergency care have been allowed by U.S. authorities to be driven across the border to American hospitals, despite the fact that a Mexican hospital is closer!

Clearly, Americans are placed in a catch-22 situation. As a nation founded on Christian principles, America is morally obligated to try to save human lives in dire emergencies, and rightly so. On the other hand, should we, as taxpaying citizens, be forced to pick up the tab and sacrifice our own quality and access to medical care? Absolutely not!

When more than 40 million American citizens cannot afford health insurance, it is insane that illegal aliens receive free medical care. For those unfortunate citizens who happen to live near the border, they are dealing with not only crowded emergency rooms and delayed service but also hospital closures. To them, this is more than just cost – it is a matter of life and death.
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Old 04-16-2006, 01:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
That was my initial reaction as well...
Anybody have any idea of hat drove the creation / passing of this legislation?

Was it consumer advocate groups or something similar?
Or Health Insurance companies?
Or something else?
The federal government drove the reform. Medicaid/Medicare was threatening to withhold its annual funding unless sometype of reform was enacted in Massachusetts. Massachusetts had some 500,000 that were uninsured and this was placing a strain on the system.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
That is the worst bullshit I have ever heard in my life. There is a reason people don't have it... THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT!!

I don't have any because of it and a law forcing me to get it certainly won't provide the money for it. BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you even know what the bill requires??? Or is this just your uninformed, unresearched opinion blaring forth?

The bill allows for those who are below the federal poverty level to receive insurance and pay no premiums. The bill further allows those who are above the poverty level up to 300% above the level to receive insurance and pay a subsidized premium.

That means that a single individual who earns $9500 or less annually would receive insurance at no cost for premiums, and other single individuals who earn up to $28,500 a year would receive insurance on a subsidized level with premium payments up to about $200 - $250 a month. All other single individuals earning more that $28,500 a year would be required to purchase insurance without and subsidized.

Despite your claim, this would help to make insurance more affordable for everyone. Furthermore, anyone who can afford the premiums and chooses not to get coverage would face losing their state personal tax exemption and face penalties up to 50% of the premium for the cheapest insurance policy available.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-
Old 04-16-2006, 02:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hevusa
Democrats are the ones that want everyone to have health insurance through a centralized system, like the one that works in Canada and in Europe.

Republicans can't even wrap their heads around it with their "me, me, me" attitude about everything in life.
Democrats want everyone to be dependent upon the benevolence of the government, whereas Republicans want everyone to be independent of the government.

Socialized medicine does not work. If it did, (1) people in Canada needing MRIs would not be going to the veternarians offices where pets can receive same day MRIs whereas people have to wait up to six months and (2) if socialized medicine was so effective, why is it that so many of the new life saving medicines, equipment, surgeries, and procedures being created and developed in the United States and not in Canada or Europe????

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
It was probably hospitals that don't get paid that are pushing for it.

My dad, who is an ER doctor, tells me that people come in after emergencies that don't have health insurance. Then, they can't afford the bill. The hospital can't just not treat people who are dying, so they lose money.

This seems more humane than what they do in Texas, although still somewhat misguided. In Texas, they can deny treatment to people, even if they're dying, courtesy of ex-Governor Bush. They can also unplug babies from the ICU if the parents can't afford it.
LIAR, LIAR, LIAR!!!!

First it is against federal law, let me say that again and type real slow for you, IT IS AGAINST FEDERAL LAW for any hospital in the United States to refuse treatment to any individual. Any hospital found guilty of doing this would face fines by the government that would in effect cause the hospital to go out of business. So, regardless of what you may think, there is no method for the governor of Texas whether it be George W. Bush or Ann Richards to allow hospitals to refuse treatment.

Second, Texas actually requires all public and non-profit hospitals to provide a certain amount of charity care annually. This does not apply to for-profit hospitals. See here!!!!

Thirdly, again under federal law, no hospital can stop life saving treatment unless it is specified by a patients living-will, legal guardian or parent.

I work in the health care field, and have worked in hospitals in Texas was Bush was governor, so I know these facts to be true. For profit hospitals can transfer patients to public or non-profit hospitals once a patient is stable, also, for profit hospital can deny treatment non-life threatening injuries or illness if the patient cannot pay for said treatment. However, public hospitals cannot.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-
Old 04-16-2006, 11:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Democrats want everyone to be dependent upon the benevolence of the government, whereas Republicans want everyone to be independent of the government.

Socialized medicine does not work. If it did, (1) people in Canada needing MRIs would not be going to the veternarians offices where pets can receive same day MRIs whereas people have to wait up to six months and (2) if socialized medicine was so effective, why is it that so many of the new life saving medicines, equipment, surgeries, and procedures being created and developed in the United States and not in Canada or Europe????

dmk

1) This doesn't change the fact that Canadian health care ranks BETTER than our American system and is FREE.

2) Europe is certainly a leader in the medical community


It doesn't really matter how good our care is if 44 million citizens don't have access to it.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.

Last edited by hevusa; 04-16-2006 at 11:50 AM.
Old 04-16-2006, 11:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
It doesn't work in Canada, and that's first-hand experience. It also works in countries with stangnant economies and little to no military funding. Does that sound like America to you?

The Canadian health care system is ranked higher than America. Yes, it does work.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.

Last edited by hevusa; 04-16-2006 at 11:50 AM.
Old 04-16-2006, 11:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
Do you even know what the bill requires??? Or is this just your uninformed, unresearched opinion blaring forth?

The bill allows for those who are below the federal poverty level to receive insurance and pay no premiums. The bill further allows those who are above the poverty level up to 300% above the level to receive insurance and pay a subsidized premium.

That means that a single individual who earns $9500 or less annually would receive insurance at no cost for premiums, and other single individuals who earn up to $28,500 a year would receive insurance on a subsidized level with premium payments up to about $200 - $250 a month. All other single individuals earning more that $28,500 a year would be required to purchase insurance without and subsidized.

Despite your claim, this would help to make insurance more affordable for everyone. Furthermore, anyone who can afford the premiums and chooses not to get coverage would face losing their state personal tax exemption and face penalties up to 50% of the premium for the cheapest insurance policy available.

dmk
It isn't enough. Everyone making less than 25K a year should receive free health care. It simply isn't in the budget.
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There is little doubt that the world in general is more liberal than it was 50 years ago and beyond. Conservatives are simply roadblocks on the path to an ever more progressive and liberal world. What a sad existence.

Last edited by hevusa; 04-16-2006 at 11:43 AM.
Old 04-16-2006, 04:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtdmski
LIAR, LIAR, LIAR!!!!

First it is against federal law, let me say that again and type real slow for you, IT IS AGAINST FEDERAL LAW for any hospital in the United States to refuse treatment to any individual. Any hospital found guilty of doing this would face fines by the government that would in effect cause the hospital to go out of business. So, regardless of what you may think, there is no method for the governor of Texas whether it be George W. Bush or Ann Richards to allow hospitals to refuse treatment.

Second, Texas actually requires all public and non-profit hospitals to provide a certain amount of charity care annually. This does not apply to for-profit hospitals. See here!!!!

Thirdly, again under federal law, no hospital can stop life saving treatment unless it is specified by a patients living-will, legal guardian or parent.

I work in the health care field, and have worked in hospitals in Texas was Bush was governor, so I know these facts to be true. For profit hospitals can transfer patients to public or non-profit hospitals once a patient is stable, also, for profit hospital can deny treatment non-life threatening injuries or illness if the patient cannot pay for said treatment. However, public hospitals cannot.

dmk
A liar, am I?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...exaslaw22.html

I don't know where you heard that veterinarian thing, but as a Canadian, that's bullshit. Sure, our system is screwed up... For example, when my mother was in a car accident, and broke her leg in six places, they sent her home. However, I really have never heard of anything as stupid as going to a veterinarian happening. I think there would at least be a minor uproar.
Old 04-17-2006, 05:02 AM   #20 (permalink)
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You said that they can unplug babies in the ICU if the parents cannot afford it. Nowhere in the article that you presented as a link did it make that statement. Nor did you state that it was the doctors who made the determiniation, and that the mother had a right to challenge the decision in court. You deliberately made a mis-statement of facts. In other words you lied. The link you posted even proves it. Thank you.

As far as the MRI, I cannot find the link, I will have to get back to you on that one, however, I did find this link . These are the facts about the healthcare in Canada, you be the judge.

dmk
Conservatism, I repeat is not an ideology. It does not breed fanatics....But if you want men who seek, reasonably and prudently, to reconcile the best in wisdom of our ancestors with the change which is essential to a vigorous civil social existence, then you will do well to turn to conservative principles
-Russell Kirk-
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