Defending the Truth

tristanrobin · 01-03-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alias

There is no such thing as "free" prescriptions. Nothing is "free". Someone has to pay for it. I pay for my prescriptions.

Tell me who has refused brain surgery or heart surgery on a patient who needs it?

I pay for my prescriptions, too. $5 each. Without health insurance they would be EXTREMELY expensive. If one can't afford insurance, one certainly can't afford to pay for prescriptions.

Why do you think that there are advertisements and flyers for 'events' (often dances or parties) to raise money for somebody without insurance who needs an operation?

Jefferson · 01-03-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristanrobin

I pay for my prescriptions, too. $5 each. Without health insurance they would be EXTREMELY expensive. If one can't afford insurance, one certainly can't afford to pay for prescriptions.

Why do you think that there are advertisements and flyers for 'events' (often dances or parties) to raise money for somebody without insurance who needs an operation?

Yeah, that &^%!@!%$# Truvada is expensive stuff!

chrisg967 · 01-03-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intangible child

That is not compassionate conservatism!

Compassionate conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What a joke!

Who said anything about compassionate conservatism???

tristanrobin · 01-03-2007, 04:52 PM

what is tuvada?

chrisg967 · 01-03-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

And if you're connected with the medical community - which I thought you were - you would know that EVERY hospital basically writes off these bills as uncollectable. Period.

They can even take the person to court, but it's still the hospital's responsibility to collect - and that rarely happens. They know they're not getting the money anyway, so they write it off.

Look into it.

Yup, healthcare providers have to write off these bills as uncollectable. Great way to run a business...

You did not comment about the 40 million or so without insurance of any kind (governmental or private). Do you now agree that the figure means absolutely no insurance?

Jefferson · 01-03-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisg967

Yup, healthcare providers have to write off these bills as uncollectable. Great way to run a business...

You did not comment about the 40 million or so without insurance of any kind (governmental or private). Do you now agree that the figure means absolutely no insurance?

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

1. These numbers do NOT take into consideration STATE-funded medical coverage, such as MinnesotaCare in Minnesota, and Title IX in Iowa.
- In Minnesota, for instance, a family of 4 can make up to $25,000 per year and receive FULL MEDICAL ASSISTANCE. They can make up to $55,000 per year and qualify for state-subsidized MinnesotaCare. People on MinnesotaCare average a premium of about $125 per month. ANY FAMILY THAT MAKES $55,000 PER YEAR CAN AFFORD A $125 PER MONTH HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUM - unless, of course, they've spent all their money on cigarettes and lottery tickets.

2. These numbers do NOT take into account Illegal Immigrants. It is estimated that there are over 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States. Kinda cuts into your 40 million, doesn't it?

3. Homeless, transients, indigents, and those who refuse medical coverage. How many million of these people are there?

40 million, my ass. Drop the zero, and you might have a more accurate number. And nobody in their right mind would DARE call that a CRISIS!

chrisg967 · 01-03-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

1. These numbers do NOT take into consideration STATE-funded medical coverage, such as MinnesotaCare in Minnesota, and Title IX in Iowa.
- In Minnesota, for instance, a family of 4 can make up to $25,000 per year and receive FULL MEDICAL ASSISTANCE. They can make up to $55,000 per year and qualify for state-subsidized MinnesotaCare. People on MinnesotaCare average a premium of about $125 per month. ANY FAMILY THAT MAKES $55,000 PER YEAR CAN AFFORD A $125 PER MONTH HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUM - unless, of course, they've spent all their money on cigarettes and lottery tickets.

2. These numbers do NOT take into account Illegal Immigrants. It is estimated that there are over 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States. Kinda cuts into your 40 million, doesn't it?

3. Homeless, transients, indigents, and those who refuse medical coverage. How many million of these people are there?

40 million, my ass. Drop the zero, and you might have a more accurate number. And nobody in their right mind would DARE call that a CRISIS!

1. Hmm.. according to the US Census Bureau's report they do count state insurance programs as coverage, and they think that insurance coverage is underreported. See http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf page 23 (of the PDF, not the page number within the document):

Quote:

What Is Health Insurance Coverage?

The CPS ASEC asks about health insurance coverage in the previous calendar
year. The questionnaire asks separate questions about the major types
of health insurance and people who answer “no” to each of these questions
are then asked to verify that they were, in fact, not covered by any
type of health insurance. For the purpose of this report, the Census
Bureau broadly classifies health insurance coverage as private or government
coverage. Private health insurance is coverage by a plan provided
through an employer or union or purchased by an individual from a private
company. Government health insurance includes the federal programs
Medicare, Medicaid, and military health care; the State Children’s
Health Insurance Program (SCHIP); and individual state health plans.*
People were considered “insured” if they were covered by any type of
health insurance for part or all of the previous year, and everyone else
was considered uninsured.

Research shows health insurance coverage is underreported in the CPS
ASEC for a variety of reasons. While annual retrospective questions appear
to be less of a problem when collecting income data (possibly because the
interview period is close to when people pay their taxes), it is probably
less than ideal when asking about health insurance coverage. Some people,
for example, may report their insurance coverage status at the time
of their interview rather than their coverage status during the previous
calendar year. Compared with other national surveys, the CPS ASEC estimate
of the number of people without health insurance more closely
approximates the number of people who were uninsured at a specific
point in time during the year than the number of people uninsured for the
entire year.

For more information on the quality of CPS ASEC health insurance estimates,
see Appendix C, “Estimates of Health Insurance Coverage.” For a
comparison between health insurance coverage rates from the major federal
surveys, see How Many People Lack Health Insurance and For How
Long? (Congressional Budget Office, May 2003) and People With Health
Insurance: A Comparison of Estimates from Two Surveys (Survey of
Income and Program Participation Working Paper 243, June 2004).

* Types of insurance are not mutually exclusive and people may be covered by more than one during the year.

(underlines added)

2. I looked at the same report to find out who they were talking to. On page 8 they state this:

Quote:

The data in this report are from the Annual Social and
Economic Supplement (ASEC) to the 2005 Current
Population Survey (CPS). The population represented
(the population universe) is the civilian noninstitutionalized
population living in the United States. Members of
the Armed Forces living off post or with their families
on post are included if at least one civilian adult lives in
the household.

Later on in the report (page 11) is a section on Nativity of the Householder. There were 7,592 who were counted as "Not a citizen" in 2003 and 7,735 who were "Not a citizen" in 2004. So both citizens and non-citizens were counted, but there was no count for illegal non-citizens. But I must be missing your point. I don't see how an estimate of 20 million illegal immigrants cuts into the 40 million the Census Bureau is saying have no insurance?

If you want to call the Census Bureau to tell them they counted or estimated wrong, be my guest. The authors of the report are listed in it. Maybe a better way to count would be to ask all the insurers how many people they cover, and subtract that from the total population?

3. This is a good question. I don't have the answer.

tristanrobin · 01-03-2007, 06:43 PM

damn, you're good

chrisg967 · 01-03-2007, 07:56 PM

The National Coalition for the Homeless website has a flyer (Publications->FactSheets) with the above title and they say that counting homeless people is difficult. Some people may be homeless for a short period and then find a home, while another family may lose theirs at the same time. Some stay with relatives, some live in parks, cars, and so forth. The Coalition also gives a national guestimate:

"The best approximation is from a study done by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty which states that approximately 3.5 million people, 1.35 million of them children, are likely to experience homelessness in a given year (National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, 2004)."

They noted that the guestimate was based on service providers, and that not all homeless people used service (shelter) providers.

Homeless persons probably qualify for government assistance with medical care, but may not apply for it. My guess is that the guestimate is not included in the 40 million without health insurance, simply because they visited homes.

The Coalition also put out other flyers, including one on Healthcare and Homelessness (PDF).