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Health Care Debate and defend your thoughts on the current health care system. Compare and contrast the current health care system of the US to other countries.

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Old 02-20-2007, 11:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
Why has none of you even mentioned the plight of Lindsey McCreith, who was the subject of the video I posted at the start of this thread. You are all good at advancing theory but still short on proof. Profits are necessary for pharmaceutical companies to carry out research.

Here is my video again, please watch it. If it does not show the video here you can still go back to the start of this thread, it still works (I just went there).

On The Fence Films :: A Short Course in Brain Surgery
I'm married to a Canadian. But we live here in the states...

Hevusa told you straight up, that that tape is about ONE individual who didn't get help. YET, I'm privy of 3 relatives (2 living and one deceased as of February 14, 2006) that had cancerous brain tumors, who had no difficulties with receiving medical care at all.

My father-in-law (who passed away last year), had been battling cancer for almost 10 years. In that time, he had to have tumors removed from his brain 9 times. He was a level 4 cancer patient by the way...Which ment the cancer was throughout his body...And the removal and treatment required basically kept him in the hospital except for the last 4 years of his life, because he wished to die at home rather then the hospital...Yet not once did he have to do without medical care or have problems having operations due to tumor removals...

My nephew (my hubby's oldest sister's 12 year old son) has had 3 tumors removed from the brain himself. He's terminal, and has had no issues receiving medical procedures or medicines either in regards to his treatments in Canada....

My mother-in-law's mother just had a tumor removed 2 months ago...along with radiation treatment...Again no problems with receiving the medical care or treatments...

And currently, one of my sister-in-laws is suspected of having breast cancer...my husband's nephew's wife has cervarian cancer...And neither of them are having difficulties with getting tests, prevenative treatments, or anything else.

As Hevula pointed out...Your video is about one individual, who represents a small precentage of another smaller group of individuals who run into problems with medical care...Which incidentally does happen time to time where any health insurance is used....

BUT, that alone doesn't mean that the whole system is failing all of the recipents...Because I know for a fact that they do help cancer patients, that they do do all that they can, and continue to do so. It may not be a perfect system, but all in all it's alot better then what the US has currently for it's own citizens.

And if it was so horrible? Then why is it our doctors and nurses are accepting jobs in Canada? Not to mention that our own citizens are buying medicines from Canada because it's unaffodable here for neccessary medicines for chronical patients?

You're failure is to recognize you are basing your own opinion on little evidence, making a mountain out of a mole hill if nothing more.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:37 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
Health , like many other things that should be left to charities , when are tried to be done by government, are done very ineffectively
Well it certainly isn't working in the hands of private companies. The bottom line and health do not go hand in hand. That is why a "capitalist" health care system is a failure.
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:54 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Well it certainly isn't working in the hands of private companies. The bottom line and health do not go hand in hand. That is why a "capitalist" health care system is a failure.

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Old 02-22-2007, 02:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
I'm married to a Canadian. But we live here in the states...

Hevusa told you straight up, that that tape is about ONE individual who didn't get help. YET, I'm privy of 3 relatives (2 living and one deceased as of February 14, 2006) that had cancerous brain tumors, who had no difficulties with receiving medical care at all.

My father-in-law (who passed away last year), had been battling cancer for almost 10 years. In that time, he had to have tumors removed from his brain 9 times. He was a level 4 cancer patient by the way...Which ment the cancer was throughout his body...And the removal and treatment required basically kept him in the hospital except for the last 4 years of his life, because he wished to die at home rather then the hospital...Yet not once did he have to do without medical care or have problems having operations due to tumor removals...

My nephew (my hubby's oldest sister's 12 year old son) has had 3 tumors removed from the brain himself. He's terminal, and has had no issues receiving medical procedures or medicines either in regards to his treatments in Canada....

My mother-in-law's mother just had a tumor removed 2 months ago...along with radiation treatment...Again no problems with receiving the medical care or treatments...

And currently, one of my sister-in-laws is suspected of having breast cancer...my husband's nephew's wife has cervarian cancer...And neither of them are having difficulties with getting tests, prevenative treatments, or anything else.

As Hevula pointed out...Your video is about one individual, who represents a small precentage of another smaller group of individuals who run into problems with medical care...Which incidentally does happen time to time where any health insurance is used....

BUT, that alone doesn't mean that the whole system is failing all of the recipents...Because I know for a fact that they do help cancer patients, that they do do all that they can, and continue to do so. It may not be a perfect system, but all in all it's alot better then what the US has currently for it's own citizens.

And if it was so horrible? Then why is it our doctors and nurses are accepting jobs in Canada? Not to mention that our own citizens are buying medicines from Canada because it's unaffodable here for neccessary medicines for chronical patients?

You're failure is to recognize you are basing your own opinion on little evidence, making a mountain out of a mole hill if nothing more.

I truly am glad that your loved ones had the lifesaving procedures that they needed. I want to add that this case that I pointed out is not the only reason that I oppose the America adopting the healthcare system used in Canada. I do not remember where I saw this but I saw information telling of how long the average waiting time is for certain procedures in the different Provinces. If true then your loved ones experiences are the exception, rather trhan the rule. I HOPE THAT IS WRONG, BUT I STILL THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE HERE IN AMERICA.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
I truly am glad that your loved ones had the lifesaving procedures that they needed. I want to add that this case that I pointed out is not the only reason that I oppose the America adopting the healthcare system used in Canada. I do not remember where I saw this but I saw information telling of how long the average waiting time is for certain procedures in the different Provinces. If true then your loved ones experiences are the exception, rather trhan the rule. I HOPE THAT IS WRONG, BUT I STILL THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE HERE IN AMERICA.
How long is the waiting list for the 47m Americans who have no health insurance?

Some of them visit Mexico and Canada where medical and dental treatment is at least more affordable

Eventually the US will have to catch up to the rest of the industrialised world and put a more equitable form of universal healthcare in place

Until then Americans will continue to labour under delusion
Old 02-22-2007, 02:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
I truly am glad that your loved ones had the lifesaving procedures that they needed. I want to add that this case that I pointed out is not the only reason that I oppose the America adopting the healthcare system used in Canada. I do not remember where I saw this but I saw information telling of how long the average waiting time is for certain procedures in the different Provinces. If true then your loved ones experiences are the exception, rather trhan the rule. I HOPE THAT IS WRONG, BUT I STILL THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE HERE IN AMERICA.

No, their care wasn't an exception. But the 'norm'. The simple truth of the matter is, as I've previously stated, there's always going to be problems in regards to any type of insurance situation where people will be denied certain medical proceedures, or there will be a delay in receiving those services for one reason or not.

But, what Canada has is alot better then what a majority of citizens here in the states are able to have. HMOs have proven time after time, they care little about giving important medical services to their customers if it means cutting into their profits. They actually pay doctors to not do the tests for saving them money. That doesn't even include the large number of hospitals that tell their patients 'sorry, we know you have this/that, but your insurance company doesn't cover the proceedures/medicines you need'.

And let's not even get started on the exaggerated prices and availability for transplant patients who will not be allowed onto the donor lists because 'they don't qualify/insurance won't cover it'....Or what the insurance companies charge in monthly premiums then put you through so much legal red tape that you're lucky to even be alive by the time they say they'll even consider saying yes....

Then of course, you have the millions of American citizens that have absolutely no insurance. Or the few that luckily get on public health assistance, yet have even more restrictions of what will/will not be covered by the state.

Oh...And let's not forget our elderly...Who have to choose each month whether to buy food from their SS and forego the much needed medicines that are supposed to give them a better quality of life?

The simple fact is, what we have isn't working for our citizens. More end up going without medical help and medicines, then those that actually benefit from it. And it's not getting any better.

The programs in Canada might have their bugs, but it's alot better then what we have going here. And alot more affordable.
Old 02-22-2007, 02:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post

Then of course, you have the millions of American citizens that have absolutely no insurance. Or the few that luckily get on public health assistance, yet have even more restrictions of what will/will not be covered by the state.

Oh...And let's not forget our elderly...Who have to choose each month whether to buy food from their SS and forego the much needed medicines that are supposed to give them a better quality of life?

The simple fact is, what we have isn't working for our citizens. More end up going without medical help and medicines, then those that actually benefit from it. And it's not getting any better.

The programs in Canada might have their bugs, but it's alot better then what we have going here. And alot more affordable.
I can hardly believe it but Ali-May is right and I agree with her!

The US system is badly broken

Ask any Doctor and they will tell you how they are fed up with insurance companies telling them how their patients have to be treated.

Consider the gross inefficiencies. Walk into any Doctors clinic and see all the admin people behind the desk. They are there to work through the insurance morass, NOT to help with your medical issues

Ask any patient if they can explain what their insurance company covers and what it doesnt

Americans may dislike putting trust in government, but why trust an insurance company whose priority is to make money for their investors, not to take care of you??

Trust me on this one, the healthcare problem is not going away
Old 02-22-2007, 02:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
Health , like many other things that should be left to charities , when are tried to be done by government, are done very ineffectively
Not true.

When properly funded and managed government run organisations can be just as efficient as privately run enterprises

Take the US military for example.

Or do you think that should be run by charities too??
Old 02-25-2007, 10:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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folly of single payer health care
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Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Not true.

When properly funded and managed government run organisations can be just as efficient as privately run enterprises

Take the US military for example.

Or do you think that should be run by charities too??
Properly funded and managed? government run? easier said than done!
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Old 03-03-2007, 03:28 AM   #30 (permalink)
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You sit here and complain about private insurance companies and the frustration of doctors regarding patient care. Just think what would happen if the government would manage the care. Medicaid/Medicare already will only allow certain tests/procedures for specific diagnosis codes. All insurance companies are doing is following the model established by the federal government. Just like all the hoopla about HMOs, well it is still the same, they were providing the same care as provide by the government medicine.

Many in the health care field complain about the third-party pay because it creates a system where the individual does not have a financial interest in managing their own care. Why wait a day for an appointment in a doctor's office when you can go to the ER and get a bill in the mail???

The irresponsibility of the people has led to the increase in cost in the health care field. Those who receive "free care" - Medicaid and Medicare - abuse the system. Showing up in the middle of the night to the ER for a sore throat. Give me a break.

I agree that there is a problem with the health care system, however, I do not believe that government is the answer. Government universal care will only result in more problems. More and more doctors are beginning to refuse medicare and medicaid patients, as they have the right to do, and as a result, these patients are having harder and harder times finding physicians to give them care. The bureaucracy of the system is resulting in longer times for claims to be paid, not having all procedures covered, and ultimately the doctors and/or clinics left holding the bag for treatments and services provided without compensation. As a result they pass these costs on to those of us who do pay, meaning our prices increase.

Those that say healthcare is a right ignore one simple fact. You cannot claim something as a right that you do not provide for yourself. In claiming healthcare as a right you are demanding the services of others as your own. In other words, you are sentencing healthcare workers to servitude for your well being.

Universal healthcare in this country will result in many private hospitals and clinics ceasing to operate. Resulting in less physicians, nurses and technicians. Throughout this country we already have a shortage of all three seriously jeopardizing the care of the public. That is why those in the medical field are paid so well, because of our demand. That is why there are opportunities for doctors, nurses and technicians to be travellers. As a traveller I made more in a single year for working only 7 months as I do now for working the whole year.

Turning healthcare over to the government will not solve the problem. Instead we need to require individuals to have health insurance, it is that plain and simple. Just like it is mandatory for an individual to have auto insurance to drive a car. Considering the fact that around 89% of Americans own cars, this is not a far stretch to accomplishing. Massachusetts for once hit the solution on the head, requiring health insurance, hopefully more states will follow suit.

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