He claimed to be a fiscal conservative, but he took office with a HUGE surplus, and left office with a HUGE defecit.

Something was weird about the whole thing.

Yep, something's definitely weird about Jesse Ventura - too many blows to the head in the past, is my guess.

Hevusa, I notice that after all this time you still haven't managed to come up with a single example of what you claimed was in ready supply - liberals who have spoken strongly for serious control of the border.
Yet
you maintained that liberal weakness on this issue is all manufactured propaganda or Republican bullsh** .
Once again hev,
remember what your English teacher said:
don't tell me, show me.

Sorry, I didn't know I was supposed to. It's just that I have never encountered these liberals who you seem to think are soft on homeland defense in regards to our southern border with mexico.

I don't know any liberal (and I know a lot) who would be opposed to securing the border by any means necessary, but using the most cost effective plan of course.

I told you I had never seen any liberal come forward and make an unequivocal statement that the border needs to be secured.
You told me they had.
I asked you - twice - to show me some of that action.
You still haven't shown even one.

Your anecdotal evidence is scarcely the equivalent of producing a statement by any liberal known to the rest of us, hev.
Once again,
the only people I have heard making any substantive statements about it or offering ideas...are conservatives such as Tom Tancredo, D.A. King, and all the others I listed in a prior post.

Hey, LW, you should totally check out Russ Feingold. He rocks my socks. Oooh... Or Harvey Milk.

Liberals do substantial things, and have working plans. So do conservatives. It isn't the affiliation, it's the person. There are stupid people on every side, but there are also smart people on every side. That's just the way things roll.

I have to agree with you there...and never have I seen such stupidity on part of the conservative side as now - although it is probably better characterized as short sighted self interest than plain old stupidity.
Still,
how long would I have to look for anything about this topic from the two persons you mentioned I wonder.

By the way, Dylan -
Recall that in the first few posts of this thread you wrote that you hate the word "Progressive" and I apologised for using it and said I had thought that was the preferred word.
I went recently to Moveon.org for a good laugh and found this:

About MoveOn.org Political Action
MoveOn.org Political Action, one of the largest Political Action Committees in the country, brings real Americans into politics to fight for a more progressive America and elect progressive candidates. It conducts major campaigns, from its work to protect the Supreme Court from a hard-right justice to its campaign to defeat the right wing and elect moderates and progressives in 2006. But in contrast to most PACs, which funnel industry contributions to candidates in exchange for access, MoveOn.org Political Action brings hundreds of thousands of small donors together to elect candidates who will represent the American people

The problem with "progressives" in America is that they equate to a moderate stance in Europe! We are so damn old fashioned.

The issue is not immigration but ILLEGAL immigration. America is open to immigration if you do it legally.