Defending the Truth

Wouldn't that be considered "cruel and unusual" punishment?

Didn't you ever hear of WWII? We imprisoned Japanese, Germans, and Italians.

Nope. Prisoners have to work in our prison system.

Alias is right prisoners do work and
No one would be forcing them, the other option would be to return to the country they came from.

Yeah.
And we admitted that was wrong too...

I do not feel the idea that we should put illegal immigrants into labor building a wall between Arizona and Mexico is completely has any chance of working. Let me bring up some points to explain why:

First, people would simply scale the wall.

Second, we shouldn't be building walls between neighboring countries. We are allies. And more importantly, we are a free nation. Can we really call ourselves a free nation if we're walling everyone out of it?

Third, how exactly are we going to find these immigrants? We can't find them now. Do you think they'll just volunteer for this? Not many are going to give up their jobs and leave their families to go work somewhere near the border. Certainly not if they aren't getting paid for it. And what if we paid them? Why wouldn't we just hire the random American citizen to do the job instead? If we paid these illegal immigrants, it would almost be like we've created a special set of a million jobs specifically for illegal immigrants: US Citizens need not apply. And then I'll bet we'd have more people crossing the border just to get these new jobs than already-illegal immigrants taking them.

Fourth, are we actually going to dish out money to pay for all this? Living arrangements and food will be very expensive. Are we going to train these immigrants too? Will training be expensive or can anyone just go ahead and build a sturdy wall? Surely we'll need to pay supervisors and planners too. We'll have to spend some money maintain it afterward too. It sure would be nice to pay the workers too, so that they don't have to live in poverty while they're working on the wall.

Fifth, after we build this wall, how will we deal with illegal immigration? Just let everybody in? Or is this wall supposed to completely end illegal immigration?

Sixth, tent cities? Are we sure this wasn't the preview to a movie about a post-alien-apocolyptic world? "Tent Cities" sounds like one of those things where you think, "Oh it probably won't be so bad," then you get there and it's a total nightmare of sanitation and quality of living. By the time you realize how you'll have to live, it's too late to turn back. Exactly how many immigrants are we expecting to leave their homes, which presumably have some sort of running water and air conditioning, to come down to these tent cities? Should we really be asking anyone to do this?

Seventh, this solution completely ignores the reasons we have the immigration cap in the first place. Once these people finish building the wall and we make them all citizens, we run in to Welfare costs, Medicaid costs, crowded schools, and all the problems that originally made us decide to implement an immigration cap.

Eighth, and most importantly, a better solution is to find a way to allow immigrants into the country while avoiding the problems described in number seven. It is morally wrong to say that moving to the US with good intentions and the desire to work is a crime.

I really think we should look for a solution similar to the one Bush proposed. His solution at least allows for people to come and work in America legally. Though I still think the solution I proposed in the Quick Fix thread is far better than Bush's plan.

As long as we pay them the current rate in Mexico, and in Pesos, sure, why not?

I know, I know, no one is going to like this simple thought, but my simple soul begs me to say it:

"Good thing that the Indians did not have immigration laws in place, or most of us wouldn't be here now!"

OD

We DID have immigration laws in effect! We were overwhelmed by the opposition to them!...LOL

Actually, we as Americans could learn much by what happened to the Native cultures, vis-a-vie immigration. Native Americans welcomed immigrants into this land, thinking that there was enough for all, and innocently unaware of the nature of the peoples they had welcomed. When they realized what they'd done, they fought to either repel the immigrants, or to limit the growth of the new population. They failed in this endeavor. Miserably.

The question this raises is: Have we, as Americans, made the same mistake?
I guess that if we have, then I, and other descendants of the original Natives have failed doubly...A sobering thought.

We have laws in our so-called civilized society. Immigration laws broken by someone sneaking under cover into the country can be a shortchanging of the citizens here and the people who come in properly.

I can see a lot of thought has gone into this subject on this forum.
If we look at the matter as if someone were coming into our house uninvited. Most would surely not be pleased with a stranger coming in through the crawl space or sneaking in the back door while it was unguarded and unlocked. Most would be very offended if another came into their house without invitation.

Offering work to a lawbreaker does not seem reasonable. If a program were initiated to offer a job to those wishing to work on this side of the border, this would be different. Offer the work within preference given to the American workforce first. Then to those wishing to work here from another country.

If the process is to cumbersome of getting a green card for the employee or for the employer to make sure their workforce is legal prior to starting a project requiring workers. Then maybe these employers ( include our government in this) should rethink their positions prior to breaking the law.

If everyone wishes to live in a law-abiding country, then all should strive to abide in the law. Then all need to abide in the law of the land. Making exceptions only creates dissension between all.