Defending the Truth

Katczinsky · 01-24-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtdmski

Again, so typical of a knee-jerk response. You are equating slavery with the punishment of law breakers. What next eliminate all prisons???

dmk

Typical? Knee-jerk? If anything that wasn't typical at all. But then again, I guess you have to use slippery slope to present an argument. I never said eliminate all prisons. These people are barely US citizens, agreed, but that doesn't write off our obligations to preserving certain unalienable rights. It doesn't mean we can hold them indefinitely and make them do slave labor for trying to make a living. Unalienable connotates that it applies to all humanity, not just Americans. They're breaking our laws, but they're foreign nationals; hence our problem lies with the Mexican government, not with people trying to survive.

Quote:

Religious and political prisoners!! so we're calling illegals that now.wow or are you just twisting the statement ..

I am for what ever it take to stop this country from being over ran..even to the point of taking up arms and defending this country..

Pay attention before you attack me. I was mostly talking to FrednTexas; he said we should round up American Communists 'while we're at it'. I only pointed out how he demonstrated that if we do one thing, we might be willing to go further.

FrednTexas · 01-24-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Pay attention before you attack me. I was mostly talking to FrednTexas; he said we should round up American Communists 'while we're at it'. I only pointed out how he demonstrated that if we do one thing, we might be willing to go further.

You were, in fact, expressing the same point that I was, except that I was doing it facisiously. (however that word's spelled!)

America first · 01-25-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

Typical? Knee-jerk? If anything that wasn't typical at all. But then again, I guess you have to use slippery slope to present an argument. I never said eliminate all prisons. These people are barely US citizens, agreed, but that doesn't write off our obligations to preserving certain unalienable rights. It doesn't mean we can hold them indefinitely and make them do slave labor for trying to make a living. Unalienable connotates that it applies to all humanity, not just Americans. They're breaking our laws, but they're foreign nationals; hence our problem lies with the Mexican government, not with people trying to survive.

Pay attention before you attack me. I was mostly talking to FrednTexas; he said we should round up American Communists 'while we're at it'. I only pointed out how he demonstrated that if we do one thing, we might be willing to go further.

see that the thing about liberals,,"we need to care about everybody but our own" why is that?. hey after we let all the people in the world in here, just what will be left for the American childern???

Here an idea..why don't all the liberals get together and move to Mexico, or even better South America, and tell them to open they arms up to the world's and keep y'all butt down there..or...you can keep up with this crap and keep pissing on the blue collar(redneck) people like you doing, until not just a civilwar is started,, but an uncivilwar. were illegals and anyone that looks to be illegal are shot on site, and that where all this bullcrap is going.but what the hell atleast we (the good Americans) can have a better world without all the crap that liberals keeps spitting out...

So to be short"STOP TELLING AMERICANS WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR MONEY,LAND, AND THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDERN"..and everything should be just fine..

FrednTexas · 01-25-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

These people are barely US citizens, agreed, but that doesn't write off our obligations to preserving certain unalienable rights.

The point of this discussion is that these people are NOT US citizens at all! They are here illegally! They broke our laws, coming here, and the laws of their native countries! They HAVE NO rights under our constitution!!
If we build a wall, or a moat, or a fence across the border, that doesn't mean that the proper and legal checkpoints will be closed. They'll all still be open! Trade, and legal immigration can still go on! Business as usual. The only things fencing off the border will stop is the illegal immigration, the trafficking in illegal aliens by "Coyote's," the illegal drug trade, possibly the deaths of more illegals who just happened to pick the wrong coyote, the underpaying of people who have no right or recourse to labor laws and standards, fair housing, and relief of the welfare system to support Illegal wives and kids of illegal workers who either ran off, or were caught, and sent back.

This has GOT to stop! It isn't reasonable, and it isn't reasonable to support continuance of illegal immigration. The only people who logically would do so, are the ones gaining by misusing these people, and some folks who've not thought the issue out entirely for themselves, and have been misled.

Like about half of our Government, and 1 1/2 of our political parties, apparently....LOL

Katczinsky · 01-25-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by America first

see that the thing about liberals,,"we need to care about everybody but our own" why is that?. hey after we let all the people in the world in here, just what will be left for the American childern???

Here an idea..why don't all the liberals get together and move to Mexico, or even better South America, and tell them to open they arms up to the world's and keep y'all butt down there..or...you can keep up with this crap and keep pissing on the blue collar(redneck) people like you doing, until not just a civilwar is started,, but an uncivilwar. were illegals and anyone that looks to be illegal are shot on site, and that where all this bullcrap is going.but what the hell atleast we (the good Americans) can have a better world without all the crap that liberals keeps spitting out...

So to be short"STOP TELLING AMERICANS WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR MONEY,LAND, AND THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDERN"..and everything should be just fine..

I can see by your screenname, that this response is predictable. It seems as if you're wrapped so far up in your own ego and complete anger toward liberals that you can't debate coherently (let alone write coherently). After deciphering the 'english' you wrote, I found out that I can't debate it, becauses its very premise is false. You claim that I believe everyone else should come before Americans, and then stem your entire argument of intolerance on that only point only to further go down a steep slipery slope that went completely off topic and into a tirade against liberalism. Well, too bad I never expressed that all others become before America.

Perhaps you should revisit the definition of unalienable and then come back to me. And notice that this word is intertwined in American history, foundation, and ideology.

Quote:

The point of this discussion is that these people are NOT US citizens at all! They are here illegally! They broke our laws, coming here, and the laws of their native countries! They HAVE NO rights under our constitution!!

If we build a wall, or a moat, or a fence across the border, that doesn't mean that the proper and legal checkpoints will be closed. They'll all still be open! Trade, and legal immigration can still go on! Business as usual. The only things fencing off the border will stop is the illegal immigration, the trafficking in illegal aliens by "Coyote's," the illegal drug trade, possibly the deaths of more illegals who just happened to pick the wrong coyote, the underpaying of people who have no right or recourse to labor laws and standards, fair housing, and relief of the welfare system to support Illegal wives and kids of illegal workers who either ran off, or were caught, and sent back.

Exactly; they're foreign nationals. Therefore our problem lies with the Mexican government. Enslaving them indefinitely for making a decision that other people are doing legally and would perhaps save the lives of their family is inhumane, but just deporting them won't be attacking the problem. Neither will putting up a wall. So our problem lies with the Mexican government. We have to put more obligation on them to prevent people from breaking their own laws, and the laws of other countries. Unfortunately the patronage-type relationship with the Bush administration and the Mexican is undermining this cause. The Bush administration doesn't want to hurt this relationship because this relationship is imperative to the Bush administration and the interests of big business in developing the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) and further erasing of the borders in a possible North American Union. The Mexican government, in fact, is one of their only friends in the Americas in the establishment of the FTAA.

Quote:

This has GOT to stop! It isn't reasonable, and it isn't reasonable to support continuance of illegal immigration. The only people who logically would do so, are the ones gaining by misusing these people, and some folks who've not thought the issue out entirely for themselves, and have been misled.

Like about half of our Government, and 1 1/2 of our political parties, apparently....LOL

Our economy is ran on the labor of these illegal immigrants. If they were all deported or rounded up in camps, our economy would suffer significantly. That is hardly looking out for the best interests of the economy. I agree, however, that there is an annual overabundance in this 'exodus' to the north. But rounding people up in camps, or putting up large walls won't be attacking the problem. We need to attack directly the causes of this exodus, namingly we need to help (if at all possible) the economy of Mexico, and we need to petition to the Mexican government to better uphold respect for the laws of other nations and the laws of their own nation.

Punishing the people who were driven to despiration, or are already in inhumane conditions isn't the answer.

tristanrobin · 01-25-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrednTexas

Maybe we should send them, along with the American Communist party members to Venezuela?

deport people because of their POLITICAL party????

Fred, is your last name Castro?

America first · 01-26-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katczinsky

I can see by your screenname, that this response is predictable. It seems as if you're wrapped so far up in your own ego and complete anger toward liberals that you can't debate coherently (let alone write coherently). After deciphering the 'english' you wrote, I found out that I can't debate it, becauses its very premise is false. You claim that I believe everyone else should come before Americans, and then stem your entire argument of intolerance on that only point only to further go down a steep slipery slope that went completely off topic and into a tirade against liberalism. Well, too bad I never expressed that all others become before America.

Perhaps you should revisit the definition of unalienable and then come back to me. And notice that this word is intertwined in American history, foundation, and ideology.

Exactly; they're foreign nationals. Therefore our problem lies with the Mexican government. Enslaving them indefinitely for making a decision that other people are doing legally and would perhaps save the lives of their family is inhumane, but just deporting them won't be attacking the problem. Neither will putting up a wall. So our problem lies with the Mexican government. We have to put more obligation on them to prevent people from breaking their own laws, and the laws of other countries. Unfortunately the patronage-type relationship with the Bush administration and the Mexican is undermining this cause. The Bush administration doesn't want to hurt this relationship because this relationship is imperative to the Bush administration and the interests of big business in developing the FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) and further erasing of the borders in a possible North American Union. The Mexican government, in fact, is one of their only friends in the Americas in the establishment of the FTAA.

Our economy is ran on the labor of these illegal immigrants. If they were all deported or rounded up in camps, our economy would suffer significantly. That is hardly looking out for the best interests of the economy. I agree, however, that there is an annual overabundance in this 'exodus' to the north. But rounding people up in camps, or putting up large walls won't be attacking the problem. We need to attack directly the causes of this exodus, namingly we need to help (if at all possible) the economy of Mexico, and we need to petition to the Mexican government to better uphold respect for the laws of other nations and the laws of their own nation.

Punishing the people who were driven to despiration, or are already in inhumane conditions isn't the answer.

But punishing Americans is just fine right..this is what I am talking about, liberals come up with these braindead ideas, yet they want us to pay for it..to hell with that, if you want mexico to be better why don't you and your friends do it and leave the rest of us alone..

BTW I know what unalienable rights means and all i can say is "SO WHAT".
Now what about the American families that have been here(legally) that now live it the streets because liberals like you are helping the illegal get here and stay.what you got to say to these people?

Wait a minute!! are you an illegal alien? I bet you are or maybe your married to one.is that why you're here begging for help to save your beloved mexico
ok i will help,I will send you a compass that only points south so you and all your illegals buddies can find your way home..

tristanrobin · 01-26-2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Now what about the American families that have been here(legally) that now live it the streets because liberals like you are helping the illegal get here and stay.what you got to say to these people?

Can you give some examples of American families living on the streets because some illegal aliens took their grape picking jobs?

FrednTexas · 01-26-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristanrobin

deport people because of their POLITICAL party????

Fred, is your last name Castro?

Have you kept current on the international news lately, hotrod?

Besides which, this was a joke!

tristanrobin · 01-26-2007, 11:37 AM

as was mine

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