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Immigration Should illegal immigrants have any rights? What can we do to stop illegal immigration? Defend your views on illegal immigration in this forum.

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Old 07-07-2005, 09:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
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I have no problem with it, in fact I encourage it! (What'd you expect? Haha)

I don't think it's any nation's place to put people in a position where they have to fight and perhaps die for the country who arms and trains them; it's not a proud death unless one believes in what he's doing and is willing to die for it; no officials' praises can justify the pain felt by the deceased or the family.

As for offenders facing prosecution, I don't believe anyone should be jailed for economic crimes (in fact, I encourage that too). Not that I believe this will happen, or that the prison system will grow more liberal any time soon, but the number of people we have locked away for stupid 'crimes' is ridiculously high. If you freed drug offenders, that's 30% right there -- just an example.

As for rapists, murderers, child molesters, and people of that nature; well I'd kill them if they hurt one of my family members, and I'd expect anybody else in the same situation would do the same. Without prisons, what's to keep a criminal safe from those s/he's done wrong?
Wow I agree with so much more of that than I would have ever expected too... Most Especially about economic prisoners, & drug prisoners. Further more I think if we give someone the death penalty, we should put them to death, not put them through college...

Don't get me wrong, sometimes college seems worse than death I know, but there is an important difference...
I do believe some criminals can be reformed, but there are some crimes that go beyond retribution (rape, etc.), that's when we resort to penalty of death.

For perpetrators of assault and other not-so-serious crimes, I say we make them work for their freedom, not busy work though, I'm talkin' stringing fenceline in Arizona during the summer and things of that nature; HARD WORK.
And again, we agree... this is getting scary...
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Old 07-07-2005, 11:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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They should be allowed to leave if they want...
Old 07-08-2005, 07:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
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Originally Posted by tadpole256
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Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
I have no problem with it, in fact I encourage it! (What'd you expect? Haha)

I don't think it's any nation's place to put people in a position where they have to fight and perhaps die for the country who arms and trains them; it's not a proud death unless one believes in what he's doing and is willing to die for it; no officials' praises can justify the pain felt by the deceased or the family.

As for offenders facing prosecution, I don't believe anyone should be jailed for economic crimes (in fact, I encourage that too). Not that I believe this will happen, or that the prison system will grow more liberal any time soon, but the number of people we have locked away for stupid 'crimes' is ridiculously high. If you freed drug offenders, that's 30% right there -- just an example.

As for rapists, murderers, child molesters, and people of that nature; well I'd kill them if they hurt one of my family members, and I'd expect anybody else in the same situation would do the same. Without prisons, what's to keep a criminal safe from those s/he's done wrong?
Wow I agree with so much more of that than I would have ever expected too... Most Especially about economic prisoners, & drug prisoners. Further more I think if we give someone the death penalty, we should put them to death, not put them through college...

Don't get me wrong, sometimes college seems worse than death I know, but there is an important difference...
I do believe some criminals can be reformed, but there are some crimes that go beyond retribution (rape, etc.), that's when we resort to penalty of death.

For perpetrators of assault and other not-so-serious crimes, I say we make them work for their freedom, not busy work though, I'm talkin' stringing fenceline in Arizona during the summer and things of that nature; HARD WORK.
what if you assault someone and blind them for life?? what should we do if someone takes our god given gifts?? such as senses, the ability to walk and do other recreational stuff. and what should the legal system do about it??
-- San Fernando Valley's where it's at
Old 07-08-2005, 07:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescott911
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
I have no problem with it, in fact I encourage it! (What'd you expect? Haha)

I don't think it's any nation's place to put people in a position where they have to fight and perhaps die for the country who arms and trains them; it's not a proud death unless one believes in what he's doing and is willing to die for it; no officials' praises can justify the pain felt by the deceased or the family.

As for offenders facing prosecution, I don't believe anyone should be jailed for economic crimes (in fact, I encourage that too). Not that I believe this will happen, or that the prison system will grow more liberal any time soon, but the number of people we have locked away for stupid 'crimes' is ridiculously high. If you freed drug offenders, that's 30% right there -- just an example.

As for rapists, murderers, child molesters, and people of that nature; well I'd kill them if they hurt one of my family members, and I'd expect anybody else in the same situation would do the same. Without prisons, what's to keep a criminal safe from those s/he's done wrong?
Wow I agree with so much more of that than I would have ever expected too... Most Especially about economic prisoners, & drug prisoners. Further more I think if we give someone the death penalty, we should put them to death, not put them through college...

Don't get me wrong, sometimes college seems worse than death I know, but there is an important difference...
I do believe some criminals can be reformed, but there are some crimes that go beyond retribution (rape, etc.), that's when we resort to penalty of death.

For perpetrators of assault and other not-so-serious crimes, I say we make them work for their freedom, not busy work though, I'm talkin' stringing fenceline in Arizona during the summer and things of that nature; HARD WORK.
what if you assault someone and blind them for life?? what should we do if someone takes our god given gifts?? such as senses, the ability to walk and do other recreational stuff. and what should the legal system do about it??
I think they should be given a longer period of hard labor.
Old 07-08-2005, 09:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by prescott911
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
I have no problem with it, in fact I encourage it! (What'd you expect? Haha)

I don't think it's any nation's place to put people in a position where they have to fight and perhaps die for the country who arms and trains them; it's not a proud death unless one believes in what he's doing and is willing to die for it; no officials' praises can justify the pain felt by the deceased or the family.

As for offenders facing prosecution, I don't believe anyone should be jailed for economic crimes (in fact, I encourage that too). Not that I believe this will happen, or that the prison system will grow more liberal any time soon, but the number of people we have locked away for stupid 'crimes' is ridiculously high. If you freed drug offenders, that's 30% right there -- just an example.

As for rapists, murderers, child molesters, and people of that nature; well I'd kill them if they hurt one of my family members, and I'd expect anybody else in the same situation would do the same. Without prisons, what's to keep a criminal safe from those s/he's done wrong?
Wow I agree with so much more of that than I would have ever expected too... Most Especially about economic prisoners, & drug prisoners. Further more I think if we give someone the death penalty, we should put them to death, not put them through college...

Don't get me wrong, sometimes college seems worse than death I know, but there is an important difference...
I do believe some criminals can be reformed, but there are some crimes that go beyond retribution (rape, etc.), that's when we resort to penalty of death.

For perpetrators of assault and other not-so-serious crimes, I say we make them work for their freedom, not busy work though, I'm talkin' stringing fenceline in Arizona during the summer and things of that nature; HARD WORK.
what if you assault someone and blind them for life?? what should we do if someone takes our god given gifts?? such as senses, the ability to walk and do other recreational stuff. and what should the legal system do about it??
I think they should be given a longer period of hard labor.
Why that instead of prison??
-- San Fernando Valley's where it's at
Old 07-08-2005, 09:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescott911
Why that instead of prison??
Hard labor is done while serving a prison sentence. It simply assures that they are working and being productive while in prison instead of just sitting in a cell.
Old 07-08-2005, 09:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by prescott911
Why that instead of prison??
Hard labor is done while serving a prison sentence. It simply assures that they are working and being productive while in prison instead of just sitting in a cell.
Oh ok, like in the Shawshank Redemption, when the warden used the prisoners for his own purposes, is that legal?? if i wanted the prisoners to build me a drive in front of my house and i was a wardon would that be legal??
-- San Fernando Valley's where it's at
Old 07-08-2005, 09:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescott911
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by prescott911
Why that instead of prison??
Hard labor is done while serving a prison sentence. It simply assures that they are working and being productive while in prison instead of just sitting in a cell.
Oh ok, like in the Shawshank Redemption, when the warden used the prisoners for his own purposes, is that legal?? if i wanted the prisoners to build me a drive in front of my house and i was a wardon would that be legal??
It would not be legal if you were using the prisoners for your own personal projects, but as long as the projects are for the state or local municipality it is perfectly legal in most states. Some states (like Georgia & Alabama) still put their prisoners to work on chain gangs, a practice I think should be more widely implemented.
Old 07-08-2005, 04:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescott911
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
I have no problem with it, in fact I encourage it! (What'd you expect? Haha)

I don't think it's any nation's place to put people in a position where they have to fight and perhaps die for the country who arms and trains them; it's not a proud death unless one believes in what he's doing and is willing to die for it; no officials' praises can justify the pain felt by the deceased or the family.

As for offenders facing prosecution, I don't believe anyone should be jailed for economic crimes (in fact, I encourage that too). Not that I believe this will happen, or that the prison system will grow more liberal any time soon, but the number of people we have locked away for stupid 'crimes' is ridiculously high. If you freed drug offenders, that's 30% right there -- just an example.

As for rapists, murderers, child molesters, and people of that nature; well I'd kill them if they hurt one of my family members, and I'd expect anybody else in the same situation would do the same. Without prisons, what's to keep a criminal safe from those s/he's done wrong?
Wow I agree with so much more of that than I would have ever expected too... Most Especially about economic prisoners, & drug prisoners. Further more I think if we give someone the death penalty, we should put them to death, not put them through college...

Don't get me wrong, sometimes college seems worse than death I know, but there is an important difference...
I do believe some criminals can be reformed, but there are some crimes that go beyond retribution (rape, etc.), that's when we resort to penalty of death.

For perpetrators of assault and other not-so-serious crimes, I say we make them work for their freedom, not busy work though, I'm talkin' stringing fenceline in Arizona during the summer and things of that nature; HARD WORK.
what if you assault someone and blind them for life?? what should we do if someone takes our god given gifts?? such as senses, the ability to walk and do other recreational stuff. and what should the legal system do about it??
It's up to the victim or the victim's family; I know this is idealistic (when have I ever said something that isn't?), but prisons are only good to a certain extent. No matter what crime a person has committed, there is an alternative to prison. If anything, prisons are just a comfort factor for the public -- these days at least.

The legal system is null & void, 'crimefighting' is racism/classism; the majority of criminals come from impoverished areas. Since the 1950's and the mass construction of American suburbs, all the money (and white people) has left the inner cities and their economies sag. For a lot of people living in those areas, there's only two ways out: join the military, or go to prison.

As for those dopey, rich white folks; someone pisses them off and they can call their lawyer in an attempt to make more money...

"Crime" does not exist in the same way in every community, most of the wrong-doing that the officials have labelled 'crime' is simply a manner of getting things done to some people (this includes the less-serious crimes, I'd imagine). Some people use the word 'crime' to throw everyone else off so they can get things done. Wrong and right are too broad; too different in every individual's eyes that it's hard to cram all these laws into a nation of 300 million and expect things to work.

The fact is that things aren't working, our prisons are full and all those rich, sneaky businessmen are still free to do more 'business'.

Right and wrong should be completely personal, but aided by friends and relatives.
\"Are we justified in using articles, no matter how convenient it may be for us to use them, that we know were produced in conditions which bored and even stultified the human beings who had to make them?\"
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Old 07-08-2005, 05:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyoneplanet
It's up to the victim or the victim's family; I know this is idealistic (when have I ever said something that isn't?), but prisons are only good to a certain extent. No matter what crime a person has committed, there is an alternative to prison. If anything, prisons are just a comfort factor for the public -- these days at least.

The legal system is null & void, 'crimefighting' is racism/classism; the majority of criminals come from impoverished areas. Since the 1950's and the mass construction of American suburbs, all the money (and white people) has left the inner cities and their economies sag. For a lot of people living in those areas, there's only two ways out: join the military, or go to prison.

As for those dopey, rich white folks; someone pisses them off and they can call their lawyer in an attempt to make more money...

"Crime" does not exist in the same way in every community, most of the wrong-doing that the officials have labelled 'crime' is simply a manner of getting things done to some people (this includes the less-serious crimes, I'd imagine). Some people use the word 'crime' to throw everyone else off so they can get things done. Wrong and right are too broad; too different in every individual's eyes that it's hard to cram all these laws into a nation of 300 million and expect things to work.

The fact is that things aren't working, our prisons are full and all those rich, sneaky businessmen are still free to do more 'business'.

Right and wrong should be completely personal, but aided by friends and relatives.
Crime is crime, it's a violation of the law. The problem is that if I or someone else in the inner city runs a hustle to take care of my family, we go to Jail for a long long time, if rich suburban white folk do, they go to a minimum security resort, for a short stint, whenever they can fit it into their schedule... It's unfair horseshit. But I've never been one to claim that life was fair, nor would I expect it to be.
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