Defending the Truth

Please, read the links we've provided that prove Americans are paying more because they are here!!

Apparently the price of a 2.25 McDonald's burger is more important to you than the fact that our women are being raped and/or killed, our children molested and killed, our loved ones killed on our streets and highways!

There's more to life than money, my friend!

Not so. PER CAPITA, of course there are more legal Americans behind bars. But ratio of illegal crime is much higher.

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Do you really believe that getting rid of all illegal immigrants will effect the crime rate?

"California's prisons are testimony to the growing illegal alien crime wave. Nearly 15 percent of California's state prison inmate population is made up of illegal aliens (approximately 22,000 prisoners). In 1997-98, the state expects to spend a whopping half a billion dollars for incarceration and parole supervision of convicted illegal alien criminals." Source

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I am NOT in favour of illegal immigration but I do recognise there are huge benefits to the average US cost of living. Far, far more than cheap burgers

I suggest you do your homework. Try this page. Take your pick.

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And I have to agree with Bush that getting rid of 10m illegals will never happen.

Because he intends to do nothing about it. I wonder how his legacy will look when he is impeached for failing to listen to the American people? Eighty percent want closed borders and he ignores us.

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Neither will a 1,800 mile fence.

A fence is a waste of American money. Enforcement of the law will suffice.

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You are right about the rule of law, but it's too late now. There are plenty of examples of how changing the law has turned would-be felons into innocent men.

All that does is ignore a problem that most assuredly will progressively worsen if something isn't done. It's time to enforce the LAW.

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Better to come up with a realistic workable plan and swallow some pride, there's just no way the genie can be put back in the bottle

It can be fixed. But it won't be if the One Worlder's have their way. And that, by the way, is exactly what is behind this. Hope you enjoy slavery, because that's what is planned for you. Unless, that is, if you are one of the "elite" which I hardly believe you are. You wouldn't be posting here if you were.

CHEAP LABOR? The following shows just how "cheap" this labor is:

Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about? (Not really, but, anyway...)
Big business doesn't want to pay a decent wage
Consumers don't want expensive produce
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. there is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent

He qualifies for food stamps

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school

He requires bilingual teachers and books, making it difficult for one-language teachers to compete for the jobs

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at taxpayer's expense

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, hospitalization or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayer's also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

If you don't agree, garysher, do your own math.

What about "ILLEGAL" don't you understand? Perhaps this link will help you to understand it's not as inconsequential as you think.

Gary even though your post is hollow, one offering no proof of it's own, I will educate you tomorrow. It's late and I just came home from our anti illegal immigration meeting to find your drivel posted on this thread. The founder of the group is on his way to England to promote his book and to speak to the BNP about the assimilation and immigration problems you say they don't have.

What the heck I'm educating all of these illegals for free why not a countrymen? Until then.

Not all laws are righteous just because they exist, and if one law is broken, it doesn't mean automatic anarchy. We change them all the time. But I'm also not saying that it's okay to ignore them either when they are in place. I'm just saying it's not practical to do mass deportations of thirty-million people. You complain about using other people's tax dollars to help them, when it will cost by far way more to find, prosecute, and deport thirty million people than it ever would be to help them.

In Eisenhower's day it wasn't as much of a problem. Today we're talking about a lot more people. If they suddenly disappeared, we'd lose an entire chunk of American society. Cities would lose their populations drastically, there would be an employment crisis in the private sector, where there will suddenly be way more job openings than people to employ, which by all means is just as bad if not worse than high unemployment rates. Businesses will suffer, and ultimately the American people will suffer.

You've obviously been consumed by a mindless facade of lies that attempts to associate the crimes of a few with an entire group of people. People who are involved in car accidents, robberies, etc., aren't victims of illegal aliens but victims of people who are driving drunk, and robbers who also happen to be illegal aliens. If they're suddenly deported, those types of crimes won't go away, because they're crimes associated with every group and not just immigrants.

If they were suddenly citizens however, we wouldn't have to support them in taxes but they would also be forced to pay taxes. But if we initiated large programs to actively hunt down and deport thirty million people, you're talking about a very large chunk of our budget...we'd have to raise taxes, and cut funding from a plethora of important programs that benefit American families. So if it is anyone's plan that burns American resources and taxpayer money into dealing with the immigrants it is definitely your insane plans.


"Sympathetic urges" just means I'm human. The vast majority of them only come over the border for the sole reason of working and sending that money back to support their families who are living in near famine. A worker program doesn't eat up barely any more resources than what we're doing to combat immigration now, and it would practically solve the problem of the vast majority of these people, and it would free up our resources to focus on the more important issues of our border like terrorists and drug traffickers. If we instituted one of your programs however, (mass labor camps, mass deportation, a giant wall, or whatever it may be), the costs are going to be endless for something that will inevitably not solve the immigration issue. So what I'll say to you is that you shouldn't spend "other people's money" to satisfy your Machiavellian and undoubtedly xenophobic tendencies.

Arguments coming out of Europe that the Muslims are "taking over" Europe are mostly coming from racist, nationalist, and sometimes Nazi groups (especially anti-Turk sentiments in Germany). The fact of the matter is that these arguments are racially motivated no matter how much you want to spin it. Muslims aren't taking over Europe, and the worker program they have helps their economy (capitalism thrives off of cheap labor), and it allows their security efforts to be focused on more pressing issues such as terrorism and other illegal rings.

When I looked at them it became evident that, like most hyper-anti-immigration websites, that it wasn't there for my "education" (as you say), but rather there to sell me a point of view. And that point of view is something that I disagree with, for obvious reasons that I have pointed out above. And judging from your blatant hostility toward me, and some of those websites' blatant callous language and sentiments toward people who are just trying to survive, I couldn't take them seriously.

For Katczinki: Illegal Immigration and Crime More facts that you consider "hyper-anti-immigration websites".

"California's prisons are testimony to the growing illegal alien crime wave. Nearly 15 percent of California's state prison inmate population is made up of illegal aliens (approximately 22,000 prisoners). In 1997-98, the state expects to spend a whopping half a billion dollars for incarceration and parole supervision of convicted illegal alien criminals."

There's the millions of dollars we could be spending on sending them back to Mexico.

Since you're so convinced that we're wrong on locking down the border, how pray tell, do you think we'll be able to prevent any Middle East terrorists from coming across bringing a dirty bomb? Soon trucks will be pouring across our borders, bringing only God knows what into our country.

Observer, you haven't countered any of my points but demonstrated your inability to extrapolate beyond the confines of your own narrow ideology. You simply shot talking points at me from those that apparently did the thinking and the synthesizing for you as opposed to you making that qualitative leap from perceptual and experience knowledge to conceptual and rational knowledge yourself.

If you did then you would perhaps come to the conclusion by now that I never said anything about not "locking down the border" but we were merely discussing the alternatives on dealing with the illegal alien population already in the United States. I believe in taking steps in "locking down the border", but I also recognize the fact that only doing so, or merely sending them back into Mexico won't solve the problem at all, or is it even attacking the root and cause of the problem.

When you're all done spending billions, perhaps trillions on finding, prosecuting, and deporting all of the illegal immigrants, you still have thirty million immigrants who are back in their meager existence that they sought to improve by working in the United States, and no matter what measures you use on the border, they will simply come back. And instead of wasting resources on catching these people, let them have legal worker status in our country, so that our security measures on the border can be focused primarily on those that actually pose a security threat such as terrorists or drug traffickers.

I support Immigration to the fullest...just do it fricken legally is all I say. You want to live here, you pay rent(taxes). Dont just slide by under the radar.

Don't worry, I'll be fine. My wife is Latina and I speak Spanish, so I'll fit in just fine.

And being a Brit means I'm always part of the elite.