Interesting. I wonder if you truly understand the capacity of the word assimilate. Assimilation is the process whereby a member of one ethnocultural group is 'absorbed' into another whereby many characteristics of the individual's former culture are erased to meet the expectations of the majority. The point I was trying to convey was that there is not one ethnic or cultural group which would primarily have the rightful designation of "American" unless of course you are talking about the Native Americans. Especially considering we are a nation of immigrants from around the world.

Something you perhaps do not understand is that "American" is a nationality and not a concept, ideology, or race (except in the context of Native Americans). There are concepts within our country that can be considered unique to America, but not to render "American" as an ideology itself. If you wish to assimilate people into an ideology, then that my friend is not uniquely American.

To be an American could also mean having U.S. citizenship and at the same time preaching against the U.S. Constitution. As such an individual's rights would be guaranteed (ironically, by the document the individual is criticizing). Likewise, to establish the obvious original owners and culture of this land that was nearly wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons would also be protected under the "American" system. So I was really attempting to point out the ridiculousness of your calls to "assimilation into American" which really can't be expressed in concrete and non-abstract terms. And I was also pointing out that there isn't any 'assimilation' (in the word's true capacity) needed to be done by the immigrants.


And sometimes consequences are beset upon a people who have little to no other choice in their actions. People are sometimes forced into the United States because of their extremely impoverished conditions and simply wish to seek a better life for their families; sometimes as a matter of life and death. Common sense would tell anyone in such a position that the potential consequences for crossing the border are much more favorable than poverty and starvation. Children of illegals born in the United States have no say over their position in the United States, and yet their parents could be taken away from them.

I thought family values and keeping the family in tact were supposed to be a virtue, not a vice. But I guess it's not immoral if it happens to a Mexican family.

I don't see how decent people attempting to provide food and clothing to their families is bad behavior. And crossing a border is barely as equally morally wrong or as reprehensible as stealing from a bank.

I wish it were that easy. I really do. However, people holding such a sentiment are not realistic at all. What exactly do you propose? The deportation of tens of millions of people? Are you aware that there hasn't been a relocation of a group of people so big as that in all of human history? The next closest thing would be Nazi Germany's holocaust. Such an undertaking would require manpower and resources of immeasurable proportions; things we simply do not have nor could ever muster.

And even if you do manage to be able to hunt down, control, and relocate the tens of millions of people, there is very little to stop them from simply going back across the border.

It simply isn't realistic.

And what difficult job would that be? Separating families? Or unconstitutionally abducting and relocating U.S. citizens without their or their parents' consent?

Well, no matter your delusions about U.S. citizenship and naturalization laws, or your own interpretations of the Constitution, current U.S. law says otherwise. Anyone born in the United States is automatically a U.S. citizen.

Arguments for illegal status and complete deportation and separation of families may be clever arguments, but I highly doubt they will achieve the ends you wish; nor do I think they are realistic.

If you would drop your illogical concepts as to what YOU believe is "American" and the lies you've been led to believe, maybe you'd have understood what I was talking about. But as long as you cling to lies perpetrated by the enemies of this great country, frankly, it doesn't give much reason to argue with you. You've obviously been taught the "re-vised" history...i.e., the theories that your masters taught you to believe are "truth" about America and its history.

And around and arond we go. Those awful, wicked, Anglo Saxons. The ones with whom the LORD GOD found favor. The ones who have saved the asses of just about every country in the world before 1950, fed the starving, lifted the impoverished, rescued the persecuted. Nauseating, isn't it? And let's do use the Constitution against itself. Another advantage the enemy has over its foe (America).

There is nothing "ridiculous" about assimilating into another culture. I'm sure you've heard the expression, "It's as American as baseball and apple pie"? For example, I wouldn't move to Mexico, fly the American flag if I truly wanted to assimilate, nor would I "demand rights" from a country that owed me nothing. DUH!

We're talking about people who come here ILLEGALLY, demanding rights that belong to CITIZENS, carry the flag of their country OVER the flag of the United States of America, and say "This country is ours and we're taking it back!" That, my friend, is INVASION, not immigration...legal or otherwise. And THAT'S what you don't want to see.

I understand that. My grandparents came for the same reasons. But guess what? They entered the country LEGALLY and became Americans in every sense of the word as they understood America to be. They came, learned English, were gainfully employed, obeyed the laws, obtained their driver's licenses, insured and tagged their vehicles. They left everything behind...especially their LOYALTY to the country from which they came, its flag, mottos, and traditions. They LEFT a country which did NOT give them anything but PERSECUTION and poverty. You can't say that of the people you defend on this thread.

If America and Mexico went to war against each other, who would these people (you know, the ones who celebrate their country's day of indepence on May 1st every year) fight for? America? You have to be smoking something pretty lethal to the brain cells if you believe they'd fight for America! They've already admitted as much that this country is theirs and they intend to take it back! It's not illegal immigration, Katczinsky, it's an INVASION.

And common sense also tells us that if one intends to stay, they should and would enter legally.

Don't try to twist the issue, Katczinsky, by evoking sympathy for the children. Do you feel sorry for the American children whose fathers have deserted or abuse them? you know, the children who were born to families LEGALLY who face as much if not worse conditions the ones your heart bleeds for? One reason this is happening is that families can't afford to have at least one parent at home. They don't qualify for same "assistance" the illegals do. They are taxed beyond the limit so that these "poor people" can have what they can't have! How many illegal families do you know that the wife/mother also works? She stays at home, a luxury most legal Americans can't afford. One slave can't help another slave. You'd better digest that and quick.

Then apparently you believe family values, keeping the family intact just applies to illegals...and to hell with American families? The taxes generated alone by this invasion are ripping American families apart! Does that not concern you?

Our taxes are so high now that it takes both the husband and wife to make ends meet, then, when it's time for THEIR children to go to college or even an extended education, like tech school, guess what? They can't afford it nor do they qualify for the same help illegals do, all paid for by the very people who DON'T qualify for the same! And you think that's fair? Probaby so. It's socialism at its very best! Rob from one to give to another.

When they come expecting to freeload, it IS morally wrong...any way you want to cut it, Katczinsky. Most don't abide by our laws, they steal social security numbers, drive without insurance or drivers licenses...they have it made over the legal citizen. I should epunge my citizenship, go south, get a tan, adopt an accent, and enter the country illegally, steal a social securtiy card, apply for welfare, and every other perk available. Then I'll have it as good as those coming across the border. And why would I want to apply for citizenship? It's better this way! Legal citizens don't have the "rights" that illegal immigrants do!

Don't get me wrong. I sympathize with the ones you say are just looking for work. If your sympathy is genuine, why don't you go to Mexico and protest their government and change their system? Seems it'd be a whole lot simpler than destroying a country that has become an oddity in the annals of world history.

But the truth of the matter is that our president is exploiting these people for his sinister purposes and the financial gain of Big Business. You really need to get that. This so-called "immigration" issue isn't about "poor people". It's about stripping America of everything it stands for, most importantly, our sovereignty. The Constitution states that our rights are given to us by God -- that I suspect you don't want to believe -- but you will once our borders are gone. When this country becomes "The North American Union" as the president plans, your sovereign rights will no longer be given to you by God. The State will then be god. Lots of luck for anyone having "rights" then. That means, Katczinsky, that MEN, not God, will decide on your fate or whether you have the right to "breathe the air". This means, too, that the United States Constitution will be rendered "null and void". Forget about freedom of speech, worship, gun rights, property ownership...everything you and everyone else takes for granted WILL BE NO MORE!

It's just too bad people are so ignorant, slothful, and evil that they can't see what's going on. But the Bible declares that in the endtime, they would be blinded because they habitually reject the truth. You're just one of millions who even though seem to have a certain degree of intellect, that "wisdom" comes from man, not God, so it's easy to be deceived.

It's such a crying shame that our president's aspirations to "democracize" the Middle East for his oil conquests especially since those people have been the way they are since the beginning of time and totally impossible. You might even say they are in the "Dark Ages", except that the "Dark Ages" is modern by comparison. It would've made much more sense to declare war on Mexico and make them conform to democracy and try to steal their oil. If he'd have done that, billions and billions of dollars and thousands of lives wouldn't have been spent on such an impossible undertaking as converting a religious people to the ideologies of "democracy". At least you can reason with a Mexican. It's their system of government that should be re-vamped (overthrown), then their people could have what the American people have enjoyed before its enemies had their say.

Mexico is rich in natural resources, but only those "at the top" benefit from it. However, that could possibly be El Presidente goal; to merge the 3 nations together so he can exploit Mexico and Canada.

Actually it IS realistic. All that has to be done is enforce the laws, dry up medicare, medicaid, WIC, and every other handout our governmental officials have been handing out like candy on Halloween. Enforce fines on businesses hiring illegals (those here on temporary permits excepted, of course), make it illegal to rent to them, etc., and they will leave on their own. That shouldn't be hard for an educated mind to agree with.

You're repeating the lie again. They are not U.S. citizens. They are children of ILLEGAL aliens who came here ILLEGALLY. What about "illegal" is it that you can't get? Children born to illegal aliens are citizens of the same country as their parents!! As I said in my previous post, "Sometimes consequences are difficult and unpleasant", but the consequences should have been considered before they embarked on their trip to break the law.

When you don't heed the sign "Warning! Bridge Out Ahead!", what happens? Are you exempt from the consequences? No, you are not. And neither should they (or anyone) be exempt from the consequences of breaking the law.

Stop the hand-wringing appeal of "Oh, whatever will we do??!! Oh, woe is me!" appeal to the less educated. This isn't what this "war" is about. It's about the U.S. remaining the United States of America. It's about making America into a 3rd world country to the financial gain of Big Business. It's about making even the legal citizen poverty stricken to where even those who have the means won't be able to help themselves much less help others. Wake up!

This will be the next issue the Supreme Court will decide because people abuse and twist the Constitution to their advantage. No, it's not MY delusisons, Katczinsky, it's your believing whatever the hell you want the 14th to say, and not the original intent.

Again, you don't want to see how realistic it is. You might change your argument if you decide to delve deeper into the bigger picture. It just depends on how deep your loyalty or lack thereof, is to the United States of America.

You know it's not exactly like the Latinos are the only people that want to come to America. There are people that are in other countries that spend years waiting. And pay thousands to lawyers to file paperwork for them to get here.

Why, do we allow those people to sit and wait for the system to work, and other people just walk into the country, and demand for concessions to be given to them first, don't treat them like second class citizens.

We have never excepted the idea of Ancient Rights in this country, besides it would only apply to those born inside this country. It does not apply to those born in Central America or South America or anywhere out side of the US.

Okay, this is really going to sound racist, but I'm just disgusted.

In my area, because of the large agricultural industry, in the last 10 years or so we've gotten an huge influx of Mexicans, both legal and illegal.

Now, was a very white bread area, and not saying that that is good or bad. Just stating that this area was founded by the Dutch, and has been that way for a very long time (anyone ever hear of the Holland, MI Tulip festival?)

Now, this area has been hit hard by the recession that is pressing on Michigan, and has been pressing on michigan for almost 8 years. So anything extra our government does for us means a lot.

Okay, last night I took my two little ones to the local park that features a splash pad type water play area (http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/grm...?storyid=77599) It's been open for app. 3 weeks.

While I was there, I noticed a definite mix of people, white, black, hispanic. What disgusted me was how the one large group of hispanics were barbecueing, and as they were leaving, the huge pile of litter and trash they left scattered around the splash pad and the barbecue area.

Now, I jumped all over another poster on another board for making sweeping generalizations about illegals, and I couldn't tell you if they were illegal or not (they were speaking Spanish, but that doesn't mean anything). But I am absolutely appalled that these people wouldn't show the same respect to a free park area that was built with OUR TAX DOLLARS that is expected from every citizen.

This isn't the first time I've noticed this, either.

My biggest hangup is the fact that a large majority of them don't bother to learn English.

A couple examples:

A couple weeks ago I went to pickup my son at a 'kidsgames' thing at the high school. There are probably 200+ kids in this program, so the parking lot was noticibly full. Now, the driveway is only wide enough to allow 1 car, and there is parking on the left side of the driveway. When I turned into the driveway, there was a woman just parked in the middle of the driveway, so it was causing a backup on the street and people couldn't get in to park to pick up their kids. When I finally squeezed by this lady's car, I parked, then walked up to her car and said "Ma'am, you need to move and park, like everyone else. People can't get into the parking lot'. She just stared and pointed to the school. I said 'Yes, I know, all these people are picking up their kids, but they need to get into the drive way, so could you please move?' Again she just pointed. It dawned on me she didn't have a clue as to what I was saying. She continued to sit there until her kids came out.

Another example: Guy in Virginia kept in jail a couple extra weeks because he couldn't understand that he was released. Now, the guy had been in this country LEGALLY for 7 years but he still didn't understand English? What's wrong with this picture? And he's suing the state of Virginia.

Why is it our responsibility to make sure people who move here from Spanish speaking countries can understand? Do we do the same for people from Africa? China? Europe? No. We speak English here, and it's time to make it the official, and only, language of this country. I'm sick of having to press 1 when I call a government office for English.

Yes Gary I really like to live in America where the natural language is English but when I call up Technical support anywhere its "Press 1 for English"
You obviously wouldnt know this but the State Rep or Gov for NH is latino and someone who wrote a letter to her got one in Spanish in return...yeah like he was going to be able to read it. And one day I got a Bill from my Gas Company in Spanish...me and my GF are saying to ourselves WTF does this say?

I got a bumper sticker that i need to mail to every immigrant that hasnt learned English yet.
WELCOME TO AMERICA
NOW SPEAK ENGLISH

By rights you should be speaking Apache or something!

Why don't you start taking Spanish classes for the hell of it?

Change is a good thing remember?

Then why do you try it