Defending the Truth

There's a laundry list of horrors that probably ties with Muslim atrocities, if it doesn't surpass it. After all, Christianity had a 300 year head start.

Are you blind?

alright the question of violence has already been proven by history. For the sake of moving on i think we can agree that both islam and christianity has violence in its past. Violence due to wrong implementation of religious doctrine. Not becasue the central messages were wrong or violent.

The Koran has actually NEVER been amended it its history. The reason for that is that there has never been any central administration that could take such a step. The Bible was amended by the church, the koran by nobody. No muslim would have the courage to do that.

Present day there are discussions about the pronunciation and meaning of certain words and phrases in the Koran. This disagreement is literary in nature. It does not have to do with two versions of the original text debating their validity.

Jesus is 100% accurate based on what the Koran says. The bible cannot be considered an accurate text as many different versions exist. No alternative versions of the koran exist. Many alternative TRANSLATIONS exist thought. But again there is no question about the authenticity of the original text. The debates again are LITERARY in terms of finding out what the original text actually MEANS.

The fact that we belive that Jesus was a prophet of god makes us respect and revere him . It also makes muslims believe that christians are close enough in their core belief to be acceptable for marriage even. However belief in the divine validity of jesus is NOT the same as accepting the divine nature of the bible OR of the CHurch. Jesus never created either of them.

You say no muslim would have the courage to change the Koran.....


Have you known every muslim through history? You can't make that statement with any amount of certainty. That is clearly a biased statement. I know it has been changed. It is also known that Mohammed was a pedophile and a man of war. Jesus was perfect and a man of peace. Jesus preached forgiveness and peace. Mohammed preached hate and war. Compare the Koran and the bible and you will see.

Ok.. if you have any proof of him being a pedophile and a man of war, i would like to see it. By this i mean historical texts and proof.

If you yourself believe that you cannot find sufficient proof, then i would request you to stop saying things like this.

Look, muslims revere your main personality. Would you stop insulting ours?

Other than that i'm just not gonna bother with you.

Good luck

That's probably a wise decision. Here is the evidence on your pedophile prophet.



Muhammed the Pedophile


Comment: When Muhammed was about 50 years old he had dreams of marrying a child, Aisha, who was only about 4-5 years old. How do we know this? Muhammed lived about 570 A.D. to 632 A.D., he became 62 years old. Hadith tells us that when he first slept with Aisha she was only nine years old, and that she then remained with him for the last nine years of his life. 62-9=53, so Muhammed was 53 years old when he first slept with the 9-year old child Aisha, who played with dolls... When he dreamed of marrying her she was six years old, or younger, so Muhammed was about 50 years old then. Why would a 50-year old man want a young child?

"...[T]he Prophet (Muhammed) said to her (Aisha), 'You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and someone said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done.'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235)

"[T]he Prophet (Muhammed) married her (Aisha) when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64)

"Narrated 'Aisha: 'I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet (Muhammed) and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:4:229)

Comment: This hadith shows that, in contrast to what some people claim, the relationship between the old man Muhammed and young Aisha was more than the "father-daughter" kind.

"Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet (Muhammed), and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me."
(Hadith: Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151)

Comment: I'm not sure what the word "enter" refers to here...

"Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle (Muhammed) said to me, 'What type of lady have you married?' I replied, 'I have married a matron'. He said, 'Why, don't you have a liking for the young virgins and for fondling them?' Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, 'Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'"
(Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17)

Comment: Muhammed obviously prefered girls so young that they were still playing, i.e. he prefered children, and he seemed surprised that his friend Jabir bin 'Abdullah didn't.

I keep asking myself that, about you!

Glad your finally asking yourself that question!

Find your way back...

As usual, no contribution to the discussion. You must sure read a lot of comic books because I can see you like pictures better than words. Most illiterate people do. Your too afraid to enter the debate for fear of appearing like the fool we all know you are so you post your pictures. Isn't almost time for milk and cookies with mommy?

Thank god dude.. i was afraid you had a quote from the quran.

Yeah about the hadith i should tell you that even I don't use them for any theological argument. While a very large part of the muslim world believes in the hadith, they are in fact tools used by the religious elite to justify tribal behaviour and control uneducated people.

If you ever see a debate between a moderate muslim and an extremist, you will notice that the moderate quotes the quran and the extremist sticks to the hadith.

By Muslim principle, the quran will always take precedence. If the quran preaches tolerance, then tolerance it is. It does not matter if any number of hadith legitimize suicide bombings. By quranic principle one must NOT resort to such violence.

Yet you see plenty of examples of islamic terrorism in the world. The reason is that some unscrupulous people take advantage of human weakness and exploit the religion. In order to validate their imperfect behaviour, they turn to the Hadith. The hadith btw have never been considered historically accurate and that is why even till today great divides exist in the acceptance of those. Of the 73 sects that exist in islam, some would agree with the above hadith and some wouldn't.

My sect ( ahmedi) does not believe in the hadith as a source of religious law. Many things change in the course of history, and behaviour appropriate at one time in history is not valid later. As a result focus is now on the Quran.

We believe that the quran is a more valid source of god than is the bible. And BOTH are most CERTAINLY a more valid source of god than the Hadith.

The personality of the prophet according to the quran was perfect. That means that ANYTHING in the hadith contradicting that, invalidates the hadith.

The fact that certain people are terrorists is because they do not see that the quranic instruction of tolerance invalidates the use of violence for Islam. This is not entirely the same in Palestina as it is national violence in essence and not with the purpose of spreading islam.. teeny difference.

However all i can say about the hadith is that the times were different back then. Children set to work at the age of 10 and average life expectancy did not exceed 40. By the circumstances of life that existed back then, it was not as unacceptable as a grown man doing the same 1400 years later.

The fact is i don't know if it's true or not.

What do you think of this link?

http://tinyurl.com/gakp7