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Media and Films Debate anything you have seen on the news, in the media, or in any film you have watched.

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Old 06-26-2006, 07:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewnoise
If the president would get warrants as is the normal operating procedure we would not be having this discussion. Can you give me one reason why the government needs have access to this info without a warrant? A warrant would protect our rights and would not in danger our security.
What makes you think the president wants to listen at normal ordinary citizens? Why would he do that? With the country being at war and everyone busy trying to kill these bastards before the kill more Americans, why would Bush waste his time listening to me about fishing trips? Why?
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jefferson
You mean Great Grandma Welch?
If she's a great grandma, then call me great grandpa. Yaaaaahooooooo....

Old 06-26-2006, 07:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
What makes you think the president wants to listen at normal ordinary citizens? Why would he do that? With the country being at war and everyone busy trying to kill these bastards before the kill more Americans, why would Bush waste his time listening to me about fishing trips? Why?
Just because he would not want to listen to you does not mean he would not listen to anyone. If there is not probable cause, the wire taps will invade citizens' rights. If there is probable cause a warrant could be obtained.
You refuse to answer my question. What is the harm of getting a warrant?
When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God
Old 06-26-2006, 07:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewnoise
Just because he would not want to listen to you does not mean he would not listen to anyone. If there is not probable cause, the wire taps will invade citizens' rights. If there is probable cause a warrant could be obtained.
You refuse to answer my question. What is the harm of getting a warrant?
I will answer your question as soon as you answer mine. Why does Bush want to listen to ordinary American citizens?
Old 06-26-2006, 07:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I will answer your question as soon as you answer mine. Why does Bush want to listen to ordinary American citizens?

First, I don't know what you mean by "ordinary" american citizens. I thought all citizens had basic rights.

Second, there could be political advantages to be gained, like in Watergate, you remember that right?

Third, at the very least he could be hoping to just stumble upon a suspected terrorist.

Fourth, since "suspected" terrorists are not charged and are held without a fair trial, a "suspected terrorist" could be anyone the president decides is one.

Finally, even if Bush has not spied on any innocent person yet, the potential abuse is still there and it is foolish to trust anyone person regardless of their party to not violate your rights when they have no accountability.

Your turn. Answer my question. What is the harm of requiring a warrant and protecting against at the very least the potential abuse and probably actual abuse?
When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God
Old 06-27-2006, 10:42 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Our freedoms most certainly come with being responsible. You can't walk into a crowded theater and holler fire. The Supreme Court has already ruled on Freedom of Speech a number of times. America is at war. A lot of people here seem to forget that fact.
Ah, the Supreme Court has ruled on it. Then I suppose we can safely say that banning abortion is unconstitutional and the right to privacy is held by all men. Simply because the Supreme Court has ruled on something does not mean that they are correct. If people are granted the right to say most things, but they are denied the right to shout "fire" in a theater, then they are denied freedom of speech. Such a policy should be the policy of the theater, not of our government.

Regardless, even if a person is denied the right to shout "fire" in a theater, this means only that he has one less right. He has gained the responsibility not to shout fire, and he has lost the freedom to shout fire. It is not his freedom that brings him responsibility, it is his lack of freedom.
-Jaxian
Old 06-27-2006, 12:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
If she's a great grandma, then call me great grandpa. Yaaaaahooooooo....

What does the fact that this pictures is BLACK & WHITE tell you about its age - and hers, Gramps?
Old 06-27-2006, 12:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewnoise
First, I don't know what you mean by "ordinary" american citizens. I thought all citizens had basic rights.

Second, there could be political advantages to be gained, like in Watergate, you remember that right?

Third, at the very least he could be hoping to just stumble upon a suspected terrorist.

Fourth, since "suspected" terrorists are not charged and are held without a fair trial, a "suspected terrorist" could be anyone the president decides is one.

Finally, even if Bush has not spied on any innocent person yet, the potential abuse is still there and it is foolish to trust anyone person regardless of their party to not violate your rights when they have no accountability.

Your turn. Answer my question. What is the harm of requiring a warrant and protecting against at the very least the potential abuse and probably actual abuse?
Warrants are for police. This is a war. You never heard all is fair in love and war?
Old 06-27-2006, 12:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxian
Ah, the Supreme Court has ruled on it. Then I suppose we can safely say that banning abortion is unconstitutional and the right to privacy is held by all men. Simply because the Supreme Court has ruled on something does not mean that they are correct. If people are granted the right to say most things, but they are denied the right to shout "fire" in a theater, then they are denied freedom of speech. Such a policy should be the policy of the theater, not of our government.

Regardless, even if a person is denied the right to shout "fire" in a theater, this means only that he has one less right. He has gained the responsibility not to shout fire, and he has lost the freedom to shout fire. It is not his freedom that brings him responsibility, it is his lack of freedom.
Great. Ya know what? I'd like to to rape your daughter and then leave her stranded in a remote forest in my area. You aren't gonna deny me my rights are you?
Old 06-27-2006, 12:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefferson
What does the fact that this pictures is BLACK & WHITE tell you about its age - and hers, Gramps?
She's got a good plastic surgeon and lots of hair dye.
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