There are more Terrorists because of Iraq

tadpole256 · 11-01-2006, 12:06 PM

YouTube - Because of Iraq

VoteVets.org

VoteVets Action Fund, a 501 (c)4 made up of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans, is today unveiling an ad that directly takes on the now-infamous
“These Are the Stakes” ad that began airing earlier this month. Featuring four Iraq veterans and VoteVets.org Advisory Board Member, retired General Wesley Clark, the ad reminds Americans that the next time they see ads declaring the world is a more dangerous place, they should remember it is that way, because of Iraq.

The truth hurts.

alias · 11-01-2006, 12:22 PM

I think Iraq and the world is a more dangerous place because of the terrorists.

Why was the world a dangerous place in WWII? The nazis, the Italian fasctiss, and the imperialist Japanese military.

Why was the world a dangerous place in the Korean War? The communists.

Why was the world a dangerous place during Viet Nam? The communists.

Why was the world a dangerous place in 1991? Saddam Hussein.

Why is the world a dangerous place now? Islamofascists.

Jefferson · 11-02-2006, 12:03 PM

Actually, a more accurate title for this thread would be, "There Are More Terrorists Because Of Islam".

alias · 11-02-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefferson

Actually, a more accurate title for this thread would be, "There Are More Terrorists Because Of Islam".

Bullseye. Why do you think the dems have locked up Pelosi and Reid? Where are they? Not a peep. They are a couple who keep saying Bush is the reason there are more terrorists.

chrisg967 · 11-03-2006, 03:48 PM

Gee, who needs them, when one can remember the intelligence report from September, or when experts echo it?

Quote:

U.S. in Iraq fueling terrorists, expert says

OFFUTT AIR FORCE BASE, Neb. (AP) -- The United States' continued presence in Iraq and Afghanistan inflames extremism, an expert on jihadist movements told an anti-terrorism conference Wednesday.

To quench those flames of hatred, said Fawaz A. Gerges, the United States must consider replacing its troops gradually with forces from other, friendly nations -- including those from Iraq's Arab neighbors.

"If we stay, it only pours a fuel on a raging fire," Gerges told the military and civilian representatives from more than 50 nations invited to discuss how they could fight the spread of jihadist terrorism.

Jihadist leaders who send others to conduct what he called the "horrible art of suicide bombing" are exploiting Islam to give their aims some legitimacy, Gerges said.

Otherwise, he said, they have no hope of becoming a legitimate social force that could attract the powerless Arab masses who disdain their governments' political leaders as self-interested hypocrites.

Gerges is an analyst for ABC News and a commentator on National Public Radio. He has written several articles about fringe Islamist movements and most recently a book, "Journey of the Jihadist: Inside Muslim Militancy."

He sees three distinct phases of the jihadist movement, stemming from its birth in the mid-1970s in Egypt. He said those founding ideologues were the cream of the middle and upper classes who had no interest in what he called "the far enemy": the United States.

The first generation was primarily interested in overcoming their own oppressive governments -- the "near enemy."

The second generation arose in the 1990s from the die-hards who had failed to overcome their governments in Egypt, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and other countries.

The second generation of jihadists soon focused on the United States, galvanized in part, he said, by the 1991 basing of U.S. forces on Saudi Arabian soil as they and their allies prepared to wrest Kuwait back from Saddam Hussein.

The first-generation jihadists could not mobilize a broad social base, he said, so the second generation, which includes Osama bin Laden and his relatively small al-Qaida organization, believed that the only way to survive was to attack the "far enemy."

The Taliban and other jihadists had been empowered by their eventual triumph over Soviet forces that had invaded Afghanistan, he said, and believed they could do the same to the United States because "Americans don't have fire in their bellies."

The Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. soil may have been a tactical success, Gerges said, but were a strategic blunder in the jihadists' struggle for legitimacy.

The attacks were widely criticized by first-generation jihadists as reckless, counterproductive adventurism, he said.

By the end of 2002, Gerges said, al-Qaida "was in a coma," powerless ideologically and its leaders, including bin Laden, in hiding.

Then came March 20, 2003, when U.S. and allied forces poured over the border into Iraq, taking Baghdad by April 9.

That act galvanized what Gerges sees as the third generation of jihadists, which he calls the "Iraq generation."

"I've met hundreds of teenagers in villages who seek bus ride money to join the fight against the U.S." in Iraq, he said.

They are young kids, he said -- angry, uneducated youths who don't even have religious education and come from the poorest levels of society.

"It's an individual duty to go fight because a Muslim country is occupied," Gerges said.

And, he said, their leaders are "willing to kill thousands and thousands of Muslims to defeat the U.S."

The longer the war continues, Gerges said, the more organized and determined the Iraqi generation of jihadists becomes.

Unless there is a dramatic shift in U.S. policy on Iraq, Afghanistan and the Palestinian question, he said, the Iraqi generation of jihadists "will pose a lethal threat to the U.S. homeland."

His analysis mirrors that of a U.S. intelligence report disclosed in September that said Iraq has become a "cause celebre" for jihadists, who are growing in number and geographic reach. If the trend continues, they said, the risks to the U.S. interests at home and abroad surely will grow.

After the report became public, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said there were many groups of extremists who murder and terrorize free people in order to topple any Muslim regime.

"Ultimately they will fail," Rumsfeld said at a meeting of NATO defense ministers.

"It's going to take time and its going to take a lot of work by people who are patient and believe in freedom," he said.

Source: Sioux City Journal: U.S. in Iraq fueling terrorists, expert says

intangible child · 12-26-2006, 11:29 PM

Where's O/Usama?????????

For your future reference, here's what Bush has said about bin Laden at various points in time, depending on how he was trying to spin things:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." - G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'" - G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...." - Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool, The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on
official White House site

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

Jefferson · 12-26-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intangible child

Where's O/Usama?????????

For your future reference, here's what Bush has said about bin Laden at various points in time, depending on how he was trying to spin things:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." - G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'" - G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...." - Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool, The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on
official White House site

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

Haven't you already posted this exact same thing about 500 times?

hkbajwa · 12-27-2006, 01:47 AM

well THERE'S a SHOCKER..

The Iraq War pissed of more people?? NO WAY.. Some of those people got angry enough to wanna destroy the US.. UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS..

Can't a nation invade another nation and destroy their infrastructure WITHOUT OPPOSITION any more?? What IS the world coming to.. i swear man.. those IRaqi bastards should be on their knees in gratitude right now.

"Thank you for arresting our dictator.. Thank you for invading our country to do that. Thank you for killing hundreds of thousands of us with your "smart" bombs. Thank you for tearing our country apart. Thank you for bombing us back a a decade or two. Thank you for imposing an admin on us.. And thank you for approving it first. We wouldn't wanna actually elect our own candidates.. The US is FAR MORE CAPABALE than we are. After all we are only mindless savages. Thank you thank you a thousand times than you"

Yeah that's fair. History has shown that most invading nations are welcomed with open arms and a biiiiig street party.. How RUDE of the Iraqis for actually trying to defend their own country. And it is even RUDER that they have the GALL to not kiss our feet as we enter the country.

I think it appalling that the US is sufering losses. A human death is tragic REGARDLESS of Affiliation ( Unless ur a US citizen in which case only US deaths matter. All other humans are not nearly as important ) But seriously man.. there was EVERY INDICATION that this was gonna happen to the US ( Vietnam was a pretty good example of such an action going wrong) .

SO good luck digging yourself out of the hole your admin landed you in.

Jefferson · 12-27-2006, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkbajwa

well THERE'S a SHOCKER..

The Iraq War pissed of more people?? NO WAY.. Some of those people got angry enough to wanna destroy the US.. UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS..

Can't a nation invade another nation and destroy their infrastructure WITHOUT OPPOSITION any more?? What IS the world coming to.. i swear man.. those IRaqi bastards should be on their knees in gratitude right now.

"Thank you for arresting our dictator.. Thank you for invading our country to do that. Thank you for killing hundreds of thousands of us with your "smart" bombs. Thank you for tearing our country apart. Thank you for bombing us back a a decade or two. Thank you for imposing an admin on us.. And thank you for approving it first. We wouldn't wanna actually elect our own candidates.. The US is FAR MORE CAPABALE than we are. After all we are only mindless savages. Thank you thank you a thousand times than you"

Yeah that's fair. History has shown that most invading nations are welcomed with open arms and a biiiiig street party.. How RUDE of the Iraqis for actually trying to defend their own country. And it is even RUDER that they have the GALL to not kiss our feet as we enter the country.

I think it appalling that the US is sufering losses. A human death is tragic REGARDLESS of Affiliation ( Unless ur a US citizen in which case only US deaths matter. All other humans are not nearly as important ) But seriously man.. there was EVERY INDICATION that this was gonna happen to the US ( Vietnam was a pretty good example of such an action going wrong) .

SO good luck digging yourself out of the hole your admin landed you in.

Or perhaps the United States should just completely pull out of Iraq, and let them lead and live by themselves.

By the way... when we constantly hear of the civil war between the SUNNIS and SHIITES, what religion are those two groups of people? And why, if they belong to a "religion of peace" are they killing each other by the thousands?

Katczinsky · 12-27-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alias

I think Iraq and the world is a more dangerous place because of the terrorists.

Why was the world a dangerous place in WWII? The nazis, the Italian fasctiss, and the imperialist Japanese military.

Why was the world a dangerous place in the Korean War? The communists.

Why was the world a dangerous place during Viet Nam? The communists.

Why was the world a dangerous place in 1991? Saddam Hussein.

Why is the world a dangerous place now? Islamofascists.

That's funny. Now if you would only extend this back even further, then your unflinching acceptance and capitulation of modes of control could be framed in a more historical and factual context. But of coarse you wont do that, because you want to feel safe enough that you can just argue within the realms of relativism. But I'm not going to grant you that safety, I'm going to extend it. Before it was the fascists it was the Chinese, before them it was the "savage Indians", and the blacks. That's right, we only invaded Florida because it was "a dangerous threat to American security", a place where free Indian peoples and escaped slaves roamed.

The Nazis and the fascists made the world a dangerous place because they were military powers, with the vested interest in militaristic expansion. Hitler's plans literally called for global dominance. Millions of people died. The USSR was a threat because of it's vested interest in global communism. Tens of millions of people died. Saddam Hussein? Barely as 'threatening' as the previous two that I listed. Before we invaded, Saddam was a tyrant in his own regard, but no one felt threatened by him. The United States was the only country in the world that felt an immediate threat to their security. Most people realized that Saddam's capacities were severely crippled, Iraq was essentially a defenseless state. Why was the US different? It's obvious; fear, propaganda. Fear is the most useful method of control, especially in a democratic society. They realize that they can't control people physically, so they try to control people's minds. To shape public opinion through spin; to manufacture consent. This is a conscious effort, talked about openly by even our own government; it's nothing surprising and neither is the inevitable fact that there will be people out there that will be effected by it.

Quote:

Actually, a more accurate title for this thread would be, "There Are More Terrorists Because Of Islam".

Barely. Islam has always been around. If Islam truly teaches terror, then terror levels solely on the basis of Islam would generally mirror the number of Muslims, despite the Iraq war. But even in the face of direct evidence (even from this government) that the Iraq War has inflamed terror as opposed to lessen it, you would still deny it. Why? What is the purpose? To defend your neo-conservative ideology? To attempt to give credence to your anti-Islamic bigotry? At first I thought solving the problem was our duty at hand. But it seems as if people first need to at least accept the problem exists.

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