Defending the Truth

As for the TSA Asking for Drivers Licenses... That's true... And I never show mine... I show my Military ID... And guess what? I don't get searched... I don't even have to take my shoes off... I float right through like royalty...

Funny, but I don't see it that way. I also don't see it as being cowardly or related to Bush in anyway.

I see it as being rational, of realizing that WE don't know everything. And that we should trust those we put in charge of securing our intrests and safty...

Like with your being a soldier Tad...I may not agree with everything a soldier must do to fulfill his/her duties. BUT, I also realize that I'm a civilian who hasn't been trained to be military. As such, I don't feel I should be second guessing your duties when you are serving in the military. Of saying 'that's silly, why not do this instead', or 'well, if you disagree with how I'd do it, then you're a coward'...

The security checks are civilian ran front lines of defense for other civilians. They determine what could be a threat, and do their best to protect us from those threats...We may think it's unwarrenteed or silly but IF they did make exceptions and it cost the lives of hundreds of more passengers, then we'd be the first yelling at them they didn't do their jobs...

And you think we'd accept their reply? 'Well, you said it was silly and we were going overboard, so we allowed the PB&J on the plane and this was the result. We did what you asked us to do.'

No, cause then we'd be telling them 'then you shouldn't have listened to us cause you knew better then us in the first place'.

I don't think we should sacrifice our civil liberties for security... It's not worth it. I'd rather be dead... Death is not that bad, and this life certainly is not that great that I am willing to sacrifice my freedoms for it.

I think this country will ultimately get what it deserves. I believe in National Karma too... And when we are in a nice safe Nazi state, we'll see how happy everyone is. This is part of the reason I rarely fly any more. I make it a point to periodically write to my elected officials demanding that they make cuts in TSA "Security" programs. I believe it's what's best for America...

Two buildings get blown up and we all loose our backbones... Once upon a time the reaction would have been different.

Sometimes it saddens me to watch Rome fall...

How is it sacrificing your civil liberty?

What, the congressman now will never be allowed to eat another PB&J sandwhich? When he got off the plane, he couldn't go up to the local sandwhich counter and order one up? Or be allowed to eat it?

He was denied having it on the plane. Nothing more. They have a list of what people can't bring onto the planes. They have to dispose of the items before boarding/going through check points. But they aren't denied having those items once they leave the airport.

If anyone is over-reacting, it's you Tad. You may be willing to sacrifice your own life (because as a soldier you take it for granted you'll die early), but you seem to be willing to sacrifice other's lives without their consent. What about their rights to live happily and saftly?

Also, if we shouldn't concern ourselves with appointing people to protect our intrests and welfare, why spend another dollar on training police, firemen, or troops period? Just open the doors and let everyone fend for themselves and take the chance of whatever maliovance another wishes to direct at us.

You evidently didn't read the Article... No he could not just go to a sandwich counter... I don't know any counters that sell anything in an airport for $0.33.

The fact is that we have the right to not have our privacy invaded. We have the right to not be treated like criminals. And we should have the right to bring our own food on the plane, many people can't afford the high prices inside the terminal. Including those police and troops that you presume I think we should not have.

The Mayor elect of Philadelphia is proposing allowing police to randomly stop and search people... I assume you'd support that for "safety" as well?

It hurts my heart to know I live in a country of such cowards...

Sometimes I don't know why the fuck I bother putting a uniform on... Any freedoms I defend Americans apparently will happily surrender at will...

Tad, this isn't Billy or Oli you're responding to...We may disagree, but let's keep it friendly?

I did read the article. He was participating in a food stamp study. BUT, part of that study, isn't just that people can't afford to buy groceries, but some days they do have to do without meals as well.

So, he got an even better idea of those he's trying to help, by now he not only had to buy poor quality meals, but get's the chance to miss a meal as does those in the study he's trying to change things for.

Still, the reality is IF he wants to, he can still eat. Unlike those he's attempting to 'survive like' he can go grab a sandwhich. But if he still wants to do as those in the study does...He's also free to go to the local Salvation Army and get in the food line for a free meal....He has options. Heck, he can even beg for food/money as some on welfare do do to get by.

But his having his sandwhich removed by airport security didn't violate his civil rights. Their doing their jobs don't in no way stop him from seeking other alternatives towards a meal or enjoying a PB&J sandwhich later.

There are lists everywhere in an airport, telling all passengers what they can/can't bring on a plane. Just because he's a congressman doesn't mean he get's exempt from those rules. In fact, his whole study participation is to show he's willing not to be kept exempt from the average Joe.

As to what the mayor is doing in Philly? Depends on WHY they're doing the stop and searches. Their reasoning behind it and if it's rational. But that has nothing to do with the airport searches/guidelines, of which there are rational reasons WHY they do so. And I for one am thankful for their study, efforts, and commitment to follow their own rules.

I don't see that 'throwing my rights away'. I see it as doing as the law asks of me, abiding by the rules and guidelines set by those agencies, and my own duty as a citizen to follow the rules even if I don't always agree with them.

I think it's just as silly to wear a seatbelt...But I wear it none-the-less because it's the rule. And if I don't, a cop pulls me over and tickets me for not wearing it, I don't see it as infrindging my rights in the least. Because it is the law and I have to abide by the laws and rules my goverment and civilian agencies determine as lawful and reasonable for my own welfare and safty.

I apologize for my tone... I was not intending to write in the same way I write to billy or oli, just in an effort to show how strongly I feel about this... I fear that the Majority of Americans feel the same as you... I think those of us who see the encroaching beast devouring our freedoms are the minority and it saddens me deeply...

I was already pretty depressed, but reading this thread makes my heart hurt so much that I just want to slink away and die... Why bother?

Ughhh...

I don't think I'll be participating in this thread anymore... I doubt many agree with me and I don't want to potentially hurt or offend any of those with whom I am close on this board...

Your point has been heard, and it crushes my very soul. I lived to serve this country... But now it seems it would rather be safe than free... and that hurts...

Again, "So this is how Liberty dies... to resounding applause..."

I understand your feeling passionate about your opinion here Tad. On a certain level, I can not only appreciate that passion, but understand it as well.

BUT, you also shouldn't be letting what I've said crush you in such a manner. We can have both freedom and safty. BUT we won't have either if we're not willing to make the sacrifices that ensure our safty so our freedoms grow.

It's sort of like a marriage...There has to be give and take in the relationship so either one can grow without smoothering the other.

Liberty isn't dying one bit by taking the safty measures to ensure everyone in our country has the chance to be all they can be. Or to better themselves. It's not going to be handed to us on a silver plater. And some of that struggle is going to hurt or come at a cost we're not happy with.

So we do without a few 'extras and comforts' on a plane flight. That just means that once we land and get to where we go, we spoil ourselves silly so we can endure another trip in the plane...

Heck...It was a pain in my bumm not having a cigarette during the flight to Canada last year. Not to mention, the tickets my sister-in-law got us didn't include a meal. So we spent 14 hours in the air, no smoking, no eating, and not enough time between flights to grab a quick bite or smoke or even light that smoke...Still, we got there saftly and without mishap, so it was all good.

We just made the in-laws stop at the first restraunt we saw after leaving the airport, that allowed indoor smoking and sold cigarette items.

Half the problem is, you're seeing this as black and white...And yet there's a bigger picture to see. And without caution, there's no life to have for pursuing freedom and liberty.

To put it even simplier...All that is done in abiding the airport regulations is a temporary loss of privelages/property. It has absolutely no affect outside of the airport/planes or in the choices a person has in their home or private lives.

Great!!! (sarcasm)

I guess I won't be able to bring my own food onboard when I travel soon. *sigh*

I printed a list of what passengers can bring and what they cannot bring inside the aircraft. I printed that from an official TSA website.

They must mean a pre-packaged container of food, bought somewhere. Like one of those single servings of cereal, which you can buy at a grocery store or at a convenience store like 7-11 or Circle K.

Did the TSA think that perhaps the PB&J sandwich was homemade, and in a plastic bag, for which they thought it was not permitted onboard?

So if I have a 4 oz. bottle of cologne, I have to put that in checked baggage instead of a carry-on, where only 3 ozs. or smaller are allowed, and only in small plastic bags.

So what about my medications? I read that a few times, and it can get confusing.