Defending the Truth

Any grown human male who commits violence on a woman or a child should be put down like a shit eating dog.

1) There is my sarcastic side which wants to ask (for another poster's *sake*) whether such an action should be explicitly abandoned since it would deny the child a "mummy and a daddy".
But that has nothing to do with you...

2) May I offer an alternative?
For every time he strikes her, she returns the favor with...
Take it like a man!

I have seen obused children, I think I would enjoy hurting the person who obused them.

I AGREE!

You're not alone in that reaction.

I don't think anybody can really empathize with how an abused person, like a wife or child, can be completely DOMINATED by the abuser. The abuser can set himself up as an image of universal control, and not submitting to the abuse can be painted as worse than the abuse itself.

The father can tell the child that if the child reports the abuse, the father will be taken away, playing at the emotional ties that the child has for the abuser. And let's face it, no matter how awful the father is to the child, the child typically still has some emotional attachment to the father.
The father can also tell the child that with the father in jail, the mother will be unable to support the family and the children will have to go into the foster care system.
Or, it could be the mother, who may also be being abused, who tells the child all this.
And the child IS, after all, a child. Not capable of realizing all his options, and having his world controlled by people who perpetuate not only physical attacks, but psychological coercion to keep the child as a victim.

Child abuse is not a simple issue. The pretense by some that other people should have just "known" that the husband would turn into an abuser is just plain idiotic. The abusers don't come out and tell the prospective wife, "I'm going to beat the crap out of you when I get in a bad mood." The abuser typically hides his abusive side until the home nest is created, and then it starts...

And even more insidious is the fact that kids RAISED in abusive homes will OFTEN in turn PERPETUATE the violence. Daughters will often subconsciously seek out and marry abusers. Sons will themselves perpetuate the abuse on their own future children and wives. Statistically, the kids who are the victims of abuse and abusive homes will recreate the type of home life that they knew. The cycle will often continue.

This web-site discusses other aspects a little more. It states that 50% of all 911 calls are for domestic abuse issues. That is just mind-boggling. HALF.
Spousal Abuse: How and Why - Marriage - Families.com

The real question is - Why are we such a self centered people? Why can we only see the world through our eyes? This is called being Brain Washed.

Ok i dunno why the topic shifted from being about military policy towards this lady to abuse at home.

Anyhow i take issue with a few things.

Firstly billy, i find it a bit disturbing that you express a certain pleasure at punishing a man who abuses his family. You are right that the man deserves no better, but this desire for venegance is one that ONLY the family is entitled to ( if they desire it at all - mostly all they want is jsut to get away). Neither you nor anybody else in this society should feel entitled to enjoy this proxy venegance.
Retribution for injustice comes in the form of justice, not in the form of venegance. As a society our focus should be on making the family feel better and NOT on gaining some sort of righteous pleasure in punishing a transgressor.

Trust me when i tell you that the loss of somebody to bully and threaten is a much greater defeat to an abuser than any jail time. It makes the abuser feel really small. Another fact very often forgotten is that a man who abuses his family is often merely mimicking behaviour he saw as a child. Abuse twists a person's sense of right and wrong. How can we as a species take pleasure in venegance on a person that probably suffered the same abuse as a child? It's just not right.

I agree that a man who abuses his family should certainly be removed from the family, but after that society shoudl focus on fixing the lives of the abused.. not spend thousands upon thousands of dollars incarcerating an already mentally damaged human in a crime factory ( that is what a jail is.. it is a unit that produces more hardened criminals).

The justice system is skewed in favor of vengeful punishment instead of securing justice. I'll bet you that a child who grows up with abusive parents will wind up being shuffled around a bunch of foster families and forgotten in the system, whereas the abusive parents will have hundreds of thousands spent on them in terms of court hearings, lawyer fees and jail-time costs. This money is better spent on a college fund for the abused kid instead of longer jail time for the parents.

On a general note i think too much focus is put on punitive measures for the perpetrators rather than rehabilitative measures for the victims. As if a 25 years in prison for the rapist will heal the scars of the victim. it doesn't

Hkbajwa, I can agree with much of what you say about the purpose of justice.

However, I think that you overlook one important factor. In the case of very violent abusers, the victims are only safe if the perpetrator -- most often the father -- is either incarcerated or dead.

You are right that abusers feel really small when they lose their victims. But often their solution to this loss of ego is to either stalk and continue to abuse the original victim(s) or to create a new family to abuse.

There are families who live in fear of the day that their abuser's prison sentence will be over because the abuser has told them that (s)he will be back to kill them when (s)he is released.

You are right that a prison sentence for the perpetrator does not heal a victim's scars. But when the abuser has vowed to finish what (s)he started, it does allow the victim some peace of mind to know that their abuser is securely behind bars.

Gar, you can be COMPLETELY obtuse at times. Just COMPLETELY missing the point of what WAS said...

In my preceding post, I said the following:

You need to start answering questions about REAL situations instead of the hypothetical fantasy land in your head which ignores the REAL situations...
What do you do when the "home" is not "loving" or "stable"?

Does that sound like I think the domestic violence home is "loving" or "stable"?
The answer should be clearly NO.

Now, with that said your response DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION.
I asked what SHOULD BE DONE in a case where: If a husband commits acts of domestic violence, do you think the mother should stay with him for the sake of maintaining a "mother and a father" in the same home for the child?

Your response about a "loving stable home" DOES NOT answer my question. It completely ignores it.

So, I ask again, with a little rephrasing to hopefully get you to COMPREHEND the situation...

If a husband commits acts of domestic violence, do you think the mother should stay with him for the sake of maintaining a "mother and a father" in the same home for the child, and that the mother should try to change the father to make it a "loving and stable" home?
Or do you think the mother should try to create a "loving and stable" home elsewhere, with a new father for a "mother / father" environment?


< yawn >
Your mindless attacks do nothing to further your position.
As another poster pointed out, they only undermine your position.


As previously pointed out, domestic abusers DO NOT ADVERTISE that they are going to start beating their wife and/or kids before the wedding.
The typical cycle involves men who do not give any overt signs that they will become violent, until the marriage is already set.

You keep giving these absolutely ignorant responses that ignore the realities of the situation. Like saying "Let them eat cake" when there isn't even enough bread to go around.


Man. As if you needed any help to ostracize yourself from this message board community.
So the MAN BEATS the wife, but it's the WOMAN's fault for allowing herself to accept a proposal from that man.

WoW!
Like I have pointed out REPEATEDLY before, your thoughts are thoroughly alien to the VAST MAJORITY of mainstream society.
I have NEVER met anybody who has anywhere near the number of absolutely messed up ideas that you profess.

What the heck happened to ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY.
The MAN BEATS the woman, but it is the woman's fault.
Unbe-fricken-lievable!