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Militaries and War Debate and discuss global militaries, past and present wars including the war on terror.

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Old 03-05-2006, 09:27 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky
The way I view this, is that there are indeed times and things to be serious about. But there is absolutely no time where freedom of speech should be surpressed. I think the western world, and the artists of the cartoons should be highly recremended to not be so...offending. Yet at the same time, there shouldn't be laws to supress other's thoughts on Islam, no matter how radical they may be. Doing so would be defeating the purpose on an idea-war that is supposed to be spreading ideas of democracy and personal liberty. Doing so would make us what we were fighting in the first place.

The radical clerics in the middle east would love to see a decline in western political and religious toleration. We wouldn't be helping the situation any by lessening people's personal liberties. But how to fix the situation in the Middle East is a different debate all together, one that must take into account of all past and present aggressions by both sides. A blood-fued locked into anger for thousands of years. Killing only feeds the anger. Peace can only be brought by understanding.
I think you just bought the Bush-bait, hook, line, and sinker.

What are we fighting for in the Middle East? That question can be answered by a lot of things, but freedom of speech isn't one of them.

Most clerics probably don't care about policy towards freedom of speech in America, any more than you'd care about the punishment for cheating on taxes is in Dubai. This is a new conflict, no matter what people will push at you. When I say new, I mean new in the context of colonialism. This isn't thousands of years old. The crusades? Please.

This cartoon war is just rediculous. A Danish cartoon insults the Prophet Mohammed, so Iranian newspapers decide to make cartoons about... The Holocaust? Yeah, I guess they're insulting all of those Jewish Danish cartoonists.

If this is a "war of ideas" it's far from constructive.

I won't deny that freedom of speech and understanding are fundamental. I will, however, deny that the way you presented them is even relevant to this debate.
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Old 03-05-2006, 10:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan
I think you just bought the Bush-bait, hook, line, and sinker.

What are we fighting for in the Middle East? That question can be answered by a lot of things, but freedom of speech isn't one of them.

Most clerics probably don't care about policy towards freedom of speech in America, any more than you'd care about the punishment for cheating on taxes is in Dubai. This is a new conflict, no matter what people will push at you. When I say new, I mean new in the context of colonialism. This isn't thousands of years old. The crusades? Please.

This cartoon war is just rediculous. A Danish cartoon insults the Prophet Mohammed, so Iranian newspapers decide to make cartoons about... The Holocaust? Yeah, I guess they're insulting all of those Jewish Danish cartoonists.

If this is a "war of ideas" it's far from constructive.

I won't deny that freedom of speech and understanding are fundamental. I will, however, deny that the way you presented them is even relevant to this debate.
Yeah, note that I said that it was "supposed to be about" spreading the idea of democracy and personal liberties in the middle east. I think bringing up the rich history of a cultural fued is more than relevent to the American colonialism in the Middle East. Mostly because Bush himself mentioned it as a "crusade" (literally) on live television a number of times.

That I'm sure sent chills down any Arab that saw that. The whole idea of Bush's that it is a noble and devine "crusade", that is the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, as an undertaking chosen by God, is a very reason for their declaring of Jihad. Between the two, the Christain radical in America's government, and the Islamic radical in the Middle East, it really is a war of religion. Both sides believe they are representing God. Bush seriously thinks America is the right arm of God.

I'm pretty sure clerics in the middle east don't care about domestic policy in Denmark, but I'm also very sure they most certainly care about domestic policy in Denmark that effects them. If they didn't care, then they wouldn't be rioting. They want accountability for the cartoons, they want apologies, and they don't want it to happen again. The way you make sure it doesn't happen again is enforcing laws telling them not to do it again.

Bush believes it his devine right granted by God to "spread freedom and democracy" in the middle east. The fact that he is failing at this is a different debate. The fact that he is stealing resources, opposing democracy in Iraq because he will know that it will lead to anti-western doctrine, and the fact that he has a brutal grip on the populace probably just as or more brutal than Saddam's is beside the point. He believes in what he says, and he's attempting to jam it down their throats whether they like it or not. To him the ends justify the means. To him he must not only do what "god tells him to do", but to ensure American dominence in the world by any means nessissary.

This is what I mean by a war of ideas.
"If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, then have faith; if you want to be a disciple of truth, then search" -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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