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Militaries and War Debate and discuss global militaries, past and present wars including the war on terror.

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Old 07-21-2008, 03:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Acceptance of Gay People in Military Grows Dramatically
Public attitudes about gays in the military have shifted dramatically since President Bill Clinton unveiled what became his administration's "don't ask, don't tell" policy 15 years ago today.
Seventy-five percent of Americans in a new Washington Post-ABC News poll said gay people who are open about their sexual orientation should be allowed to serve in the U.S. military, up from 62 percent in early 2001 and 44 percent in 1993.
Majorities of Democrats, Republicans and independents alike now believe it is acceptable for openly gay people to serve in the U.S. armed forces. Shortly after he took office in 1993, Clinton faced strong resistance to his campaign pledge to lift the military's ban on allowing gay people to enlist. At that time, 67 percent of Republicans and 75 percent of conservatives opposed the idea. A majority of independents, 56 percent, and 45 percent of Democrats also opposed changing the policy.
Today, Americans have become more supportive of allowing openly gay men and women to serve in the armed forces. Support from Republicans has doubled over the past 15 years, from 32 to 64 percent. More than eight in 10 Democrats and more than three-quarters of independents now support the idea, as did nearly two-thirds of self-described conservatives.
Changing attitudes on the issue parallel broader swings in public views about homosexuality. In their recent review of 20 years of polling data, the Pew Research Center reported "a major shift away from highly negative attitudes toward gays and support for punitive actions against gays." In the 2007 Pew data, for example, 28 percent said local school boards should have the right to fire teachers known to be gay; that was down sharply from the 51 percent who said so in 1987.
In the new Post-ABC poll, military veterans are less apt than others to say gay people should be allowed in the military. While 71 percent of veterans said gay people who do not declare themselves as such should be allowed to serve, that number drops sharply, to 50 percent, for those who are open about their sexuality. Non-veterans, by contrast, are as likely to support those who "tell" as those who do not.
Fifty-seven percent of white evangelical Protestants now support allowing openly gay service members in the military, compared with 82 percent of white Catholics and 80 percent of those with no declared religious affiliation. Three-quarters of both married and single people support the idea, both significantly higher than in 1993.
Acceptance of Gay People in Military Grows Dramatically

-----

times are changing.
"I did not choose to be gay, I was chosen"....

Hey idiot, "Next time you have a thought...just let it go." -Ron White

Lather, rinse and repeat.
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It's funny.

When the topic is DADT, and surveys show that a large majority of Americans support repealing it, the anti-gay brigade says we shouldn't vote on it, but leave the decision to the people affected, the military.

But when the topic is gay marriage, and surveys show increasing but not (yet) a majority of support for it, the anti-gay brigade says we should vote on it, rather than leaving the decision to the people affected, the gay couples that want to marry.

The best part is, when this blatant hypocrisy is pointed out to them, rather than be mature and admit their anti-gay agenda, they sputter all sorts of silliness about how the two types of gay discrimination are completely different.

It would be hilarious if it weren't so very sad.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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No they don't sputter that.

The marriage and military are different. The military has rules procedures and requirements that don't apply to the civilian life. While marriage is a social custom. Asking "the general public" about what to do with the military is ignorant.
Old 07-22-2008, 04:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
No they don't sputter that.

The marriage and military are different. The military has rules procedures and requirements that don't apply to the civilian life. While marriage is a social custom. Asking "the general public" about what to do with the military is ignorant.
...and one marriage is not predicated on another, so asking you what you think about my marriage is just ignorant....and asking people to vote on the marriage rights of others is equally as ignorant.

As far as military judgment, just ask Japanese-Americans who had their rights as citizens stripped away when they were thrown in concentration camps during WWII if THAT military decision wasn't ignorant.

The fact is, we the people have a far bigger stake in what goes on in the military than whether or not 2 boys get married....but typically, the right wing zealots get all ramped up over bullshit instead of something that is real.


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Old 07-22-2008, 05:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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...and one marriage is not predicated on another, so asking you what you think about my marriage is just ignorant....and asking people to vote on the marriage rights of others is equally as ignorant.

Not really. Any logical thinking human can see that same-gendered unions are no "marriage' of two humans. It's just a hormonally induced delusion. Just like the other sexual deviant unions.

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As far as military judgment, just ask Japanese-Americans who had their rights as citizens stripped away when they were thrown in concentration camps during WWII if THAT military decision wasn't ignorant.

That was a military decision effecting national security. Not the other way around.

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The fact is, we the people have a far bigger stake in what goes on in the military than whether or not 2 boys get married....but typically, the right wing zealots get all ramped up over bullshit instead of something that is real.
Not really. "We the people" depend on the military to be a efficient proficient fighting force. And if allowing people to openly practice a sexually deviant proclivity would effect our all-volunteer military, it should be up to our military to decide whether that is a fact. And at this point, the members of the military have said they would rather not serve with openly gay members.
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun View Post

Not really. Any logical thinking human can see that same-gendered unions are no "marriage' of two humans. It's just a hormonally induced delusion. Just like the other sexual deviant unions.
There is nothing logical about denying consenting adults in legal relationships equal rights, protections and benefits under the law...in spite of your misguided and illogical perception that fucking your dog or your kid is the same thing.

That was a military decision effecting national security. Not the other way around.[b][color=Green]

It was a military decision that basically stripped Americans of their constitutional rights out of paranoia.... please keep that word paranoia in the front of your mind for the answer to the next paragraph.


Not really. "We the people" depend on the military to be a efficient proficient fighting force. And if allowing people to openly practice a sexually deviant proclivity would effect our all-volunteer military, it should be up to our military to decide whether that is a fact. And at this point, the members of the military have said they would rather not serve with openly gay members.
So again, the military thinks it is OK to discriminate against a group of perfectly fine young men and women out of...yup....you guessed it...paranoia.

This same thinking is what fired 7 Arabic and Korean translators from the military because homophobia trumps the needs of national security.




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Old 07-22-2008, 05:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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So again, the military thinks it is OK to discriminate against a group of perfectly fine young men and women out of...yup....you guessed it...paranoia.

This same thinking is what fired 7 Arabic and Korean translators from the military because homophobia trumps the needs of national security.

It may appear to be paranoia to you, but then you would think that wouldn't you??

After all you still labour under the delusion that homosexuality is somehow valid.

Describing a perfectly instinctive and reasonable discomfort with homosexuality as 'homophobic' only underlines your bigotry.

Not every issue boils down to a hysterical demand for 'rights'. Serving members of the military have rights too.

I think the decision about allowing homosexuals to serve in the military should be left to members of the military and their loved ones.

If they are prepared to live in close quarters with people of the same sex who may find them sexually attractive, and if there is no reduced productivity or efficiency as a consequence, then I suppose it's ok.


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Old 07-22-2008, 05:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
It may appear to be paranoia to you, but then you would think that wouldn't you??

After all you still labour under the delusion that homosexuality is somehow valid.

Valid? That's absurd, it is neither valid nor invalid, it is a human condition that is not an illness and not a crime. It is no more or less valid than heterosexuality.

Describing a perfectly instinctive and reasonable discomfort with homosexuality as 'homophobic' only underlines your bigotry.

Having discomfort over another person's perfectly natural and lawful sexual orientation is irrational and is the embodiment of ignorant bigotry.

Not every issue boils down to a hysterical demand for 'rights'. Serving members of the military have rights too.

Their rights stop when they interfere with the rights of others.

I think the decision about allowing homosexuals to serve in the military should be left to members of the military and their loved ones.

What you think is irrelevant since you are not even a citizen of this great nation.

If they are prepared to live in close quarters with people of the same sex who may find them sexually attractive, and if there is no reduced productivity or efficiency as a consequence, then I suppose it's ok.

The enlightened people of your country have already determined that it is OK...and as far as I know, there hasn't been a collapse of The British Forces has there?






I know that your only purpose in life is to prevent gays from having any rights at all, but you are a powerless idiot here and it looks like you haven't had much impact in your own country either.

Sad.
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Valid? That's absurd, it is neither valid nor invalid, it is a human condition that is not an illness and not a crime. It is no more or less valid than heterosexuality.

Wrong.

Homosexuality serves no purpose other than to defy the purpose of human sexuality




Having discomfort over another person's perfectly natural and lawful sexual orientation is irrational and is the embodiment of ignorant bigotry.

So if bestiality were legalised you would feel no discomfort over that?



Their rights stop when they interfere with the rights of others.

Correct. Members of the military have a right not to be forced to live amongst people with a deviant sexual yearning.






The enlightened people of your country have already determined that it is OK...and as far as I know, there hasn't been a collapse of The British Forces has there?
I know that your only purpose in life is to prevent gays from having any rights at all, but you are a powerless idiot here and it looks like you haven't had much impact in your own country either.

Sad.
Again you let your deep seated anger and bigotry spill over.

If the British Armed Forces are happy allowing homosexuals into their ranks then so be it. Had they said otherwise I would have supported that decision too

Which is exactly what I said about allowing homosexuals into the US military
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
Again you let your deep seated anger and bigotry spill over.

If the British Armed Forces are happy allowing homosexuals into their ranks then so be it. Had they said otherwise I would have supported that decision too

Which is exactly what I said about allowing homosexuals into the US military
Homosexuality is a part of human sexuality, and once again, most of us who are not morons can distinguish between consenting adults in lawful and loving relationships, and fucking animals......too bad you are a moron who can't make that distinction.


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