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Soldiers to get life in jail for refusing to act as occupiers

Militaries and War Debate and discuss global militaries, past and present wars including the war on terror.

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Old 09-21-2006, 04:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Soldiers to get life in jail for refusing to act as occupiers

SOLDIERS who object to taking part in a military occupation of a foreign country will face life in prison under measures due to be rubber-stamped in the House of Commons on Monday.

Click for story
They enlisted and then they refused to obey orders. No one to blame but themselves. No sympathy here. Everyone who enlists in the military knows what they are doing. If they don't know what they are doing, then they are mentally ill. That was not the case here as I am sure they had a mental examination to assure they were competent.
Old 09-21-2006, 05:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Katczinsky View Post
Its perfectly understandable that they volunteered for what they are doing and are expected not to abandon their posts. But it is also their argument that its their right and some would say duty not to serve in an illegal and unjustified war. I can understand punishment for going AWOL, but I think the point of this article is..."but for life?"
That was pretty much my reaction too.
"Life!!??!!?"
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Old 09-21-2006, 05:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
That was pretty much my reaction too.
"Life!!??!!?"
Sounds harsh, but when the word gets around, how many soldiers do you think will refuse to obey an order during war? This generation doesn't know what happens during war and they are finding out the hard way.
Old 09-21-2006, 06:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Sounds harsh, but when the word gets around, how many soldiers do you think will refuse to obey an order during war?
If we put people in prison for life for jay-walking, I'ld bet we would reduce that too...

Punishment fit the crime, and all that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
This generation doesn't know what happens during war and they are finding out the hard way.
Considering I have served, you haven't, and I have seen your callous disregard for the military laws and rules, I come to the conclusion that you don't know what the heck you're talking about.
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Old 09-21-2006, 06:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I have no problem with them going to jail, I do however, have a problem with them going for life. Give them a fine, maybe 5 years, but not life. This is ridiculous.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
If we put people in prison for life for jay-walking, I'ld bet we would reduce that too...

Punishment fit the crime, and all that.



Considering I have served, you haven't, and I have seen your callous disregard for the military laws and rules, I come to the conclusion that you don't know what the heck you're talking about.
That's funny. A lot of soldiers I talk to agree with me on a lot of things. I don't think they agree with me because i'm beautiful. Any way we can get information to save American lives is fine with me. You all can quibble about the guilt. If the enemy captures our soldier, he is going to be tortured and then killed. I know the rules of war. Kill the enemy. It's because of soldiers like you that we would lose this war.
Old 09-21-2006, 11:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias View Post
That's funny. A lot of soldiers I talk to agree with me on a lot of things. I don't think they agree with me because i'm beautiful.
How many of them would follow the orders they were given?
Regardless if they thought they needed to break the rules, like you do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Any way we can get information to save American lives is fine with me.
"to save American lives"...
Therein lies the rub.
You don't even bother to stop to figure out if your desired violence will have any impact on saving American lives. Your fear is so great that you think your fear justifies your actions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
If the enemy captures our soldier, he is going to be tortured and then killed.
So you want to be like the enemy.
Makes sense to me!
<end sarcasm>


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I know the rules of war. Kill the enemy. It's because of soldiers like you that we would lose this war.
No. Those are your rules.
The "rules of war" are the ones put forth by the people above you. SCOTUS. Congress. The president.
And you don't give a crap about them as long as you can excuse your violence by pretending that it will "help" something.
Actually HELPING is irrelevant.
It's your capability to CLAIM that it could help that you want.
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Old 09-21-2006, 11:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
How many of them would follow the orders they were given?
Regardless if they thought they needed to break the rules, like you do?



"to save American lives"...
Therein lies the rub.
You don't even bother to stop to figure out if your desired violence will have any impact on saving American lives. Your fear is so great that you think your fear justifies your actions...



So you want to be like the enemy.
Makes sense to me!
<end sarcasm>



No. Those are your rules.
The "rules of war" are the ones put forth by the people above you. SCOTUS. Congress. The president.
And you don't give a crap about them as long as you can excuse your violence by pretending that it will "help" something.
Actually HELPING is irrelevant.
It's your capability to CLAIM that it could help that you want.
Where in your muddled brain does getting information any way I can make me like the enemy? Are American lives the same to you as enemy lives? Not to me. Your moral equivalency will get a lot of people murdered. I care more about my countrymen than the enemy and his pain. If I was a soldier, I would not want you watching my back.
Old 09-22-2006, 09:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alias View Post
Where in your muddled brain does getting information any way I can make me like the enemy?
Over and over again, you justify your actions because of the enemies actions.
You claim it's okay to do it because the enemy is doing it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Are American lives the same to you as enemy lives? Not to me.
I've already stated my position.
If they confront on the battle field, kill them.
If they are captured, treat them humanely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
Your moral equivalency will get a lot of people murdered.
blah, blah, blah...
You KEEP SAYING THAT but then you FAIL to show how ANYBODY is murdered because of my actions.
You FAIL to show how ANYBODY is saved because of your actions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alias
I care more about my countrymen than the enemy and his pain. If I was a soldier, I would not want you watching my back.
If I was a soldier in your platoon, I would do my job as instructed. I wouldn't be one who was "refusing to act as occupiers".
You, on the other hand, have repeatedly demonstrated that you would disregard the rules to achieve whatever benefit you could imagine. That's asking for trouble.

The reason you say that is because you haven't a clue about me, and you make up sh!t about me in your head.
"(Gay marriage) is a debate about whether you think gay people are part of the human condition or just a random fetish."
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:36 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Over and over again, you justify your actions because of the enemies actions.
You claim it's okay to do it because the enemy is doing it.



I've already stated my position.
If they confront on the battle field, kill them.
If they are captured, treat them humanely.



blah, blah, blah...
You KEEP SAYING THAT but then you FAIL to show how ANYBODY is murdered because of my actions.
You FAIL to show how ANYBODY is saved because of your actions.



If I was a soldier in your platoon, I would do my job as instructed. I wouldn't be one who was "refusing to act as occupiers".
You, on the other hand, have repeatedly demonstrated that you would disregard the rules to achieve whatever benefit you could imagine. That's asking for trouble.

The reason you say that is because you haven't a clue about me, and you make up sh!t about me in your head.
I never said it's okay because the enemy does it. You did. I said to get the information any way we can. If you have some kind of moral problem with that, that's your problem. Not mine. My goal is to save American lives.

I don't have to make up shit about you in my head. I'm just going by what you say.
Last edited by alias; 09-22-2006 at 10:43 AM.
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