Lies From The Media - Page 11

Lucidthots · 06-07-2006, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkbajwa

Dear friend,

Obviously you have no idea who i am. So why don't i tell you a thing or two about myself.

I am half danish and half pakistani. I am an ahmedi muslim. I'm also ex-danish army. Served in the armed forces of a nation allied in the iraq war. Third gunner, 1st Mortar, heavy mortar division, Sjellandske Livregiment. I live in pakistan where i work in construction. I also have a radio show on a local radio channel.

Are you aware that Larry Silverstein admitted to bombing the WTC building # 7?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PULLIT.mp3

.

hkbajwa · 06-07-2006, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teethandclaws

How dare any person try to tell another person how to live, ever? Welcome to the civilized world.
It has been done since the dawn of civilization and violence and war is the way it has been done. In order for civilization to exist, there must be a created order.
Suicide bombers create chaos, soldiers destroying entire villages creates chaos, but which one will lead to the order needed for civilization to thrive, especially considering the fact that the world is becoming one civilization through globalization.
Given all of the information I have encountered, I think it is more likely the soldiers will be able to bring about an order that will be fair to all people, regardless of gender, religion or class.
Suicide bombers have a limited perspective, determined that what is right is determined by the religion they follow, not considering anything else for validity.
That is not a balanced way of viewing the bigger picture at hand.
Considering that the soldiers are Americans, and America is a nation of all nationalities, all religions and all perspectives, that gives us a unique advantage in creating order out of chaos, because that is a part of who we are.
You all know, I am anti-war, but I do believe that in their hearts, our soldiers are trying to make this world a better safer place for everyone.

Yeah i don't doubt the sincerity of the soldiers. I do however doubt the sincerity of those guys who sent the soldiers to war ( those who conveniently never ACTUALLY risk their lives).

The only difference between a suicide bomber and a US soldier is the fact that the US soldiers have an infrastructure. This infrastructure prevents chaos, and makes the US army preferable to a suicide bomber. No doubt.

However the terrorist considers himself a soldier. He considers his actions necessary, and he considers them to be to the advantage of the world. He HAS to , otherwise he couldn't jsut give up his life. The fact that he is misguided by unscrupolous leaders actually makes him the SAME as a US soldier.

BTW equating the two does not lower the US on my opinion. However i suspect it does in yours. I happen to be able to see those processes of poverty, hunger, frustration and misguidance that make the terrorists. I also happen to be able to see that the honest US soldier is in Iraq forced to fight peole he doesn't know, because he is being misled by his leaders. TO me that makes him the same as a "terrorist"... Not evil.... just exploited

hkbajwa · 06-07-2006, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alias

And I don't accept a muslim calling my country a terrorist nation and our soldiers terrorists. my family is fighting this war and they are not terrorists and I do not live in a terrorist nation Hevusa. Wake up for cripe sakes.

Because i say it does not make it so. This is what you call voicing an opinion. I'm just telling you that regardless of what the intentions are, this is how the US comes across to most muslims. Deal with it dude.

Dealing with it does not mean shouting curses. It also does not mean shutting up and taking it. Dealing with it means trying to CHANGE that opinion through dialogue and re-evalulation of own policies.

Denying that the opinion exists is precisely why the soldiers in IRaq were not welcomed with open arms. We had a good laugh about how shocked you americans were. We could have told you that from the beginning. In fact i think we did.

Had the Bush admin honestly reviewed how the invasion would have been taken, they would have realized their mistake and not stared on this vile war in the first place.

tadpole256 · 06-07-2006, 08:55 AM

I apologize in advance, as I have not had the time to go through and read all the posts. But I do want to add my opinion on this subject, speaking as a serviceman currently serving in Afghanistan.

As a military member who has seen more than my fair share of combat action I can tell you that what happened in Haditha is very tragic. There is rarely ever a good excuse for the killing of women and children. Certainly not as many as were killed. The fact of the matter is that we are a professional Military Fighting Force, not a group of Thugs.

When the results of the investigaion are complete, the appropriate actions need to be taken. If the Marines are found guilty they should be punished appropriately. War fighters are not beyond reproach by virtue of their bravery. In fact, we are, and should be held to a higher standard.

Support your troops, but know that wrong is wrong. I know that it's easy to be a Monday morning Quarter back, but morality in war is important. And I am not saying they ARE wrong. But if they are judged as such, after an investigation then so be it.

alias · 06-07-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkbajwa

Dear friend,

Obviously you have no idea who i am. So why don't i tell you a thing or two about myself.

I am half danish and half pakistani. I am an ahmedi muslim. I'm also ex-danish army. Served in the armed forces of a nation allied in the iraq war. Third gunner, 1st Mortar, heavy mortar division, Sjellandske Livregiment. I live in pakistan where i work in construction. I also have a radio show on a local radio channel.

So i do a few different things. But what's important here is my religion. Let me tell you a bit about that too.

Ahmedi muslims believe that the promised messiah ( according to christian, judaic and muslim traditions ) arrived in the shape of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed in 1898 in Qadian in India. From the very beginning Mirza and his followers were persecuted by the muslim clergy.

Since then, the constitution of Pakistan has been changed to declare ahmedis non-muslims. In fact by Pakistani law, i can be put to death for talkking about my religious background.

The muslim fundos who wanna bomb the US, ALSO want to kill me, my family and everybody who calls themselves ahmedi. My life is in more danger from these nuts than you.

SO NOTHING i say is ever in defense of the bearded crazies. In fact i bitch them out more tan you do. Indeed i have more reason to, and i have more of a RIGHT to. YOu know what i ALSO have a right to do considering my background? That is to criticize the WEST. Remember i am half danish and i have lived and served in the west.

YOu must thikn i am crazy criticizing both sides. Well no i aint. Fact is that in ANY dispute both parties usually are doing something wrong. Both parties need to review themselves and reach a compromise. That's called "resolution". However when one party subjugates the other and imposes their value system on them , it's called "subjugation". I seem to want RESOLUTION, while you want SUBJUGATION. It doesn't matter whether you like muslim philosophy or not. It is the RIGHT of the Iraqi people to believe in ANYTHING they wqish. That includes NOT believing in the US. If the US is the bastion of freedom, then give freedom to disagree. DOn't force another country to be just like you.

If you look back at all the debate we have had, i have never once condoned or accepted the behaviour of muslim fundos. In fact i have criticized it ( i don't need to as much on this forum because plenty of people are aware of the wrongs committed by the muslim fundos)

What i have also done is tell you straight how the americans come across to the rest of the world. YOU may fool yourself into believing that the US is a divinely proclaimed nation and as such perfect, but the reality is that most countries in the world consider the US a bully and a buffoon, with too much power.

YOU may say that ur soldiers are not terrorists, and indeed i believe that they are fighting for what they believe ( never said they were evil). BUT that does not change the fact that they are viewed as violent terrorists by a very large part of the world. I mean here in pakistan even among the moderate educated class, the US is viewed as a violent bully.

Now to adress what you said:

All i have done is ASK what the difference is between the two. I ask this because i believe that if you look at it objectively, even though you may call them two different things, the actitivites are pretty similar. Whether you agree or not, Iraq may not WANT american democracy. BUt isn't this invasion the same as trying to force a belief system on another unwilling country?

made no claims so there is nothing to refute. However what you HAVE done is refuse to answer any of my questions

Apparently anybody who doesn't AGREE with you is a LIAR. Ok that's cool if you think that, but i speak the truth as far as i know it. If i am that wrong why don't you try and correct me instead of flying off the handle.
And i'm sorry but you obviously don't know what ur saying. Fact is that you DO call people names as a part of your debating and i don't think anybody on this forum is in doubt of that.

No dount htere are those elements in the country. However, how does critique of the US equate with defending the bearded crazies? like i told you, MY LIFE is more in dnager from these nuts than urs is. I spew no propoganda. I just don't agree with YOUR propoganda.

THat's just awfully primitive alias. COnsidering the fact that I'M supposed to be the terrorist, you seem to be acting a lot LIKE one. Never once have i insulted your religion. Never once have i insulted jesus, never once have i said you re going to hell, never once have i said that my belief is better than yours. Never ONCE have i threatened you in any way because of what you say about my religion. Every time you spit in my face, i request you to stop.

So i'm gonna ask you once again. Please stop talking to me like that.

I could care less if you insult Jesus. I do care when you insult my country and our soldiers. I have family who are in this fight. As long as you talk about America being the same as the terrorists, then this is what you will get. You cannot spit in my face without getting it back. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. You spout your opinions and I spout mine. If you can't take that, then take up a new hobby besides trashing America and our troops. Now to your points about Iraq.

As far as name calling, you check out foundit66 and tell me how many times he has called me ignorant, dumb, Alzheimers, etc. When you insult my country, you are insulting me. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are without being called ignorant or dumb. It is you and the liberals who think anyone who disagrees with you is dumb. Looks like it goes both ways. So don't play your high and mighty game with me. If you dish it out, prepare to get it back or find someone else to play your propaganda game with. Is there anything in this post you did not understand?

alias · 06-07-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkbajwa

Because i say it does not make it so. This is what you call voicing an opinion. I'm just telling you that regardless of what the intentions are, this is how the US comes across to most muslims. Deal with it dude.

Dealing with it does not mean shouting curses. It also does not mean shutting up and taking it. Dealing with it means trying to CHANGE that opinion through dialogue and re-evalulation of own policies.

Denying that the opinion exists is precisely why the soldiers in IRaq were not welcomed with open arms. We had a good laugh about how shocked you americans were. We could have told you that from the beginning. In fact i think we did.

Had the Bush admin honestly reviewed how the invasion would have been taken, they would have realized their mistake and not stared on this vile war in the first place.

America did not start this vile war. Saddam started this vile war when he invaded Kuwait. There was never a peace treaty signed, only a cease fire. The war that began in 1991 was never finished.

This is why I question your honesty.

Dylan · 06-07-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alias

I don't think calling the United States a terrorist nation and our soldiers, of which some are my family, terrorists is very polite. You need to wake up and put your bias on back burner pal. A muslim who is calling my people terrorists is going to far. That crosses the line big time.

What do you mean "your people?" I'm an American too.

alias · 06-07-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

What do you mean "your people?" I'm an American too.

Are you a soldier in my family? I think you forgot to turn on your comprehension button.

Dylan · 06-07-2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alias

Are you a soldier in my family? I think you forgot to turn on your comprehension button.

I think you used an excessively vague pronoun without a preface.

alias · 06-07-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

I think you used an excessively vague pronoun without a preface.

Whatever. He was comparing our soldiers to terrorists and I have family who are soldiers and fighting in Iraq. That is "my" people. They are not terrorists. Do you have a problem with that or are you going to turn me into the thought police or the punctuation police?

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