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Originally Posted by hkbajwa  SUicide bombings are appalling. The article first quoted is a bit dated, but ok fine i can understand the anger.
But let's look at it. If israel is the only democratic state in the region i believe the American admin has something to do with that. Re-installing the kuwaiti dictator AND (drumroll) full support of the saudi royal family that has a barbaric record of suppression of women and non-muslims. But they give america oil so it's ok that they are a disgusting autocratic dictatorship. |
I agree with this. Reenstating the Kuwaiti royal family was not a good thing to do. They have an atrocious record, and assert that people do not have rights. The same goes for Saudi Arabia.
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The Moral High ground is a VERY dubious term really. Exactly how can israeli actions ( while politically understandable) at ALL be considered more morally correct. Invasion of Gaza moral? Invasion of Lebanon moral? Complete subjugation of palestinian population moral? In the same breath i would like to mention that bombing a tel aviv restaurant is not moral either. But still at least the palestinians don't keep throwing the Moral High ground argument about all the time like a bunch of whining little princesses.
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The invasion of Gaza and Lebanon were necissary defensive actions. The Israelis pulled out of both, and then people started firing rockets. There is nothing wrong with defending oneself. The Israelis do not "completely subjugate" the Palestinian population. For starters, Israeli Arabs have completely equal rights with any other Israelis, except they are not required to join the army, due to possible ethical conflicts. As for the Palestinians proper, every time Israel tries to give them more autonomy, Israel gets attacked. The religious extremist Palestinians claim that God wants them to kill all of the Jews, whereas the rest just describe Israel as the Devil. They may not claim that they are right, but they claim that their opponents are evil, which is even worse.
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Israel uses it's highly trained army and super sophisticated military hardware to kill Palestinians.. the palestinians use bombs strapped to their bodies. Both sides kill innocent civilians, and both sides truly believe they are fighting for their survival.
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What people believe does not affect the reality of the situation. I think that the articles mention that.
"If you don’t have moral absolutes, then what Israel does is viewed as bad as any terrorist act. An act of terror is termed ‘freedom-fighting’ because freedom doesn’t mean anything."
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How does that give the israelis the moral high ground? Both sides are reacting with violence. Israel just a bit more successfully as they got bigger guns.
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Israel is defending itself. It wants nothing more than to be left alone, whereas their opponents want them to be obliterated. The idea that because Israel is stronger, Israel is wrong is fallacious.
"Altruism tells you, as Christianity does, ‘The meek shall inherit the earth,’ and the biggest sin of altruism is acting in self-interest. The weak and suffering, who must not have acted out of self-interest, are virtuous. Israel, by being strong and successful, must be the villain."
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While i understand that Israel is now a viable state and can not be dismembered, you guys really need to stop sanctifying yourselves. The problem is not the palestinians or the israelis. It's the fact that there seems to be consensus that only violence death and destruction will solve anything.
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The Israelis have made offer after offer. Yasser Arafat did nothing but reject. Oh, and then there's those times when all of the surrounding Arab countries have attacked at once. Fun times, that. The problem is not the Palestinians, but the people who want to drive Israel into the ocean, or who cover their ears and pretend that Israel doesn't exist.
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All those against the killing of innocent humans say aye.
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Nay.
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I believe you all must be saying aye. Well in that case it's time to start advocating non-violence on BOTH sides. Which starts with denouncing violence no matter what side.
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Supporting Israel does not mean that I advocate violence. However, non-violence isn't really going to help the Israelis stop rocket attacks, or people blowing themselves up. About 2000 years of general non-violence has resulted in nothing but being slaughtered. Self-defence is necissary for survival. It was a hard lesson learned, after centuries of inquisitions, pogroms and holocausts.
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But then again i know some of you got a hard-on for war. You know what in that case stop debating, pick up a gun and shoot some terrorists. And go to sleep knowing that you have indeed made the world a less violent and dangerous place.
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I'd rather not shoot anyone at all, but if someone shot a rocket at my house, I think I might decide to do something about it.
08-19-2006, 06:30 PM
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