Defending the Truth

Isaiah 1: 21

Alas, she has become a harlot!

The faithfull city
That was filled with justice,
Where righteousness dwelt....
But now murderers.

Your silver has turned to dross;
Your wine is cut with water.
Your rulers are rougues
And cronies of thieves.

Everyone avid for presents
And greedy for gifts;
They do not judge the cause of the orphan,
And the widow's cause never reaches them.



Isaiah 1: 27- 31

Zion (those faithfull to GOD) shall be saved in the judgement;
Her repentent ones, in the retribution.

But rebels and sinners shall all be crushed.
And those who forsake the Lord shall perish.

Truly you shall be ashamed
Because of the terebinths (valuable trees) you desired,
And you shall be shamed because of the gardens you coveted.

For you shall be like a terebinth (tree)
Wilted of leaf,
And like a garden
That has no water.

Stored wealth shall become as chaff,
And he who amassed it as a spark;
And the two shall burn together
With none to quench.




Isaiah 5: 20- 24

Ah,

Those who call evil good
And good evil;

Who present darkness as light
And light as darkness;

Who present bitter as sweet and sweet as bitter!





Ah,

Those who are so brave....
As drinkers of wine.

And so fearless as mixers of drink!




Who vindicate him who is in the wrong in return for a bribe.
And withold vindication of him who is in the right.





Assuredly as straw is consumed by the flame of fire
And hay shrivels as it burns,

Their stock shall become like rot,
And their buds shall blow away like dust.
For they have rejected the word of the Holy One of Israel.

No i DO believe that you research your arguments ( most of the time ) which is why i tend to argue with you seriously.

American policy is too vague about terrorists. Can you tell me the state department's definition of a "terrorist"? It is not an easy task. Unfortunately what happens is that america tends to give an across the board definition which winds up including muslims in general. They do this because they are incapable of accurately pin pointing terrorists. America has also been supremely unsuccessful in combating terrorism because it does not know HOW to do so. ALL STATISTICS AND REASEARCH INDICATES THAT THERE ARE MORE TERRORISTS AND MORE VIOLENCE IN THE WORLD AS A RESULT OF THE US 'WAR ON TERROR".

Muslims want the US to butt out because they are clearly doing it wrong. 10 points for trying.. 0 points for success rate.

Every innocent that is killed or illegally incarcerated as a result of the "war on terror" creates countless more terrorists.

It just so happens that i met an american yesterday who is here on a confernce. He is one of the DEFENCE ATTORNEYS who are defending Gitmo prisoners. One of his clients was FIFTEEN when he was caught. A BOY.. A CHILD.. Is this combating terrorism? As per this american ( who i think knows MORE than any one of US ) the US "war on terror" is NOT WORKING. His name is Zachary and he's jewish.

Combating terrorism locally. YOur contention is that the muslim nations cannot do it. Well of course they cannot. It is basic nature that you fight the outsider FIRST.. and THEN you start fighting internally. As long as there is a conflict going on with an outsider, there can never be internal revision.

WHen the US stops exploiting the oil rich countries and supporting dictatorships, when it stops unilaterally invading foreign nations, when it stops putting sanctions on countries on "suspicions" ( unproven so far), when it ceases to support rebel dictators ( noriega ), when it ceases to support Israel in spite of human rights violations, when it ceases to disregard environmental standards set by Kyoto, when it reduces it's nuclear arsenal, in fact when it stops bullying the world... THEN Maybe local populations will be able to deal with the REAL issues of poverty corruption hunger and frustration that CREATE terrorists.

COuntries like Malaysia, Indonesia and TUrkey PROVE that terrorism can be handled by MUSLIMS. Have you noticed that these countries are also the ones which the US does NOT FUCK WITH. so logic states that if NON - INTERFERENCE works in THESE muslim countries, then it will ALSO work in other muslim countries.

The muslims haven't wiped out terrorism, that's true.. but neither has the US.. In fact the US policies have created MORE terrorists as per your own internal reports.... would you mind letting the locals have a go?

Now you may say that the locals have not done anything to combat it so the US have to swoop in and save the muslims.. .well dear friend ALL TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS have DIRECT links to actions taken by the US or ISRAEL. THey might never even have been created if the US and Israel had behaved themselves in the first place.

yup... that also happens to be the world view held by terrorists. According to THEM , the AMERICANS came in and messed with them first. so it's a chicken and egg type of situation. Fact however is that american support of an unpopular shah in Iran gave the ayatollahs the popular support to start the revolution, the present occupation of Iraq is fueling terrorism there, unequivocal support of Israel ( in spite of their ruthless treatment of palestinians) is causing most arab muslims to want to kick american ass.

American is FAR MORE ACTIVE outside their own borders than anyone else on the planet. This includes bullying client states, sanctioning those who do not wish to be bullied and invading those that have oil.

What are you talking about when you say that america only goes into another country in response to terrorism.

you don't seem to understand the 9/11 was the culmination of many years of american intereference in foreign lands.. u know from when you were liberating the world from communism.. back when you supported osama.

No muslim ever tried to dictate american policy.. same cannot be said for america.. America has been interfering in muslim nations WAY before terrorism even existed.

Consistently bombing innocent muslim civilians and calling us all evil is clearly not helping YOUR cause either.. the US has done a helluva lot for pakistan in the earthquakes, just like pakistan sent supplies to the US after Katrina. There is no DEBT involved here.. it is a humanitarian effort.. in fact it sounds particularly cheap to harp on about american benevolence for helping out in a catastrophe ridden area. Pakistan did the same for the US so shut the hell up.

However i do have a bone to pick with the US. Zia ul Haq the military dictator of the 80s was funded and supported by the US government. Billions of dollars flowed in to Zia's regime. Were you aware that it was Zia who pushed thru the Hudood Ordinance which implemented sharia laws in Pakistan? Were you aware that Zia changed the textbooks on islam in pakistani schools to relfect his fundamentalist regime? Did you know that he dragged Pakistan 20 years back in development? DID YOU KNOW THAT HE DID ALL THIS WITH US FUNDING? Again american interference fucked us up.

I know more about YOUR country than you know about MINE. I know more about your culture than you know of "muslim" culture. I know more about american history than you know of pakistani OR danish history. In fact i know more about the world than you do. My issues witht he US are not mindless raving of a deluded fundamentalist mind. They are opinions echoed by YOUR OWN PEOPLE.

You say that aggressive warfare is the best way to deal with terrroism. Can you give me ANY corroborating evidence? As per your OWN intelligence agencies, terrorism is ON THE RISE, more terrorists are being created and more terrorist actions are taking place AS A RESULT OF AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY.

SO how well is the bombing solution working so far? Your solution will only work if there is a complete holocaust killing one or the other side. That is not a SOLUTION.. it is BUTCHERY. You cannot combat the butchery of terrorists with more butchery of your own. It is PROVEN to be INEFFECTIVE.

MY SOLUTION is about communication and negotiation.. non-violence just happens to be a pre-requisite... what does your solution address other than the overpopulation on the planet?

We didn't invade anyone because they have oil. We took over Iraq to drive the evil out and now they have a democratically elected government. The terrorism is from holdovers from the last regime and Iran and Syria. You just can't quit get it can you. If you want to blame America, then blame England, France, And Russia. They have all interferred also. What we're trying to do is bring you backward savages into the modern world.

You keep telling us you're smarter than everyone, but I have yet to see you pinpoint the problem. You claim you are against terrorism, but you will not blame your religion which is the cause. Osama and the other terrorists are more real muslims than you are. The koran is a violent book. The Koran says to kill the unbeliever. Christianity says to love everyone. It's your fucked up religion and you will not admit it. You keep pointing fingers at America. Islam is the cause of all this shit, not America.

Heres' the problem and it aint America. It's your fucked up religion.


O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred... (8:65)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah...And the Jews say Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say Christ is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; Allah's curse be on them; how they are turned away!" (Koran 9:29-30)

And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM (8:71)

FIGHT THEM: ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM BY YOUR HANDS AND BRING THEM TO DISGRACE, AND ASSIST YOU AGAINST THEM. (9:14)

FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. (9:73)

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

I WILL CAST TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEREFORE STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS AND STRIKE OFF EVERY FINGERTIP OF THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ACTED ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER; AND WHOEVER ACTS ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER - THEN SURELY ALLAH IS SEVERE IN REQUITING (EVIL). THIS - TASTE IT, AND (KNOW) THAT FOR THE UNBELIEVERS IS THE PUNISHMENT OF FIRE. O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day - unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company - then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be. So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy) but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; (8:12-17)

And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors. Is it then the judgment of the times of ignorance that they desire: and who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure? O YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (5:49-51)