Defending the Truth

San Francisco to Boot JROTC Programs
Wednesday, November 15, 2006

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SAN FRANCISCO — High schools across the city soon will no longer have Junior Reserve Officers'Training Corps programs after officials decided to eliminate them because of the Pentagon's"don't ask, don't tell"policy regarding gay service members.

The Board of Education voted 4-2 late Tuesday to phase out the JROTC from schools over the next two years, despite protest from hundreds of students who rallied outside the meeting.

The resolution passed says the military's ban on openly gay soldiers violates the school district's equal rights policy for gays.

The school district and the military currently share the $1.6 million annual cost of the program. About 1,600 San Francisco students participate in JROTC at seven high schools across the district.

Cadets and instructors who spoke at the meeting and rallied outside argued that the program teaches leadership, organizational skills, personal responsibility and other important values.

"This is where the kids feel safe, the one place they feel safe,"said Robert Powell, a JROTC instructor."You're going to take that away from them?"

FOXNews.com - San Francisco to Boot JROTC Programs - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Bill O'Reilly is right on.

San Francisco Values Front and Center
Thursday, November 16, 2006

By Bill O'Reilly

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Tuesday night by a vote of 4-2, the San Francisco Board of Ed banned Junior ROTC training in seven city high schools, throwing 1,600 students out of those clubs. This is a direct insult to the U.S. military and violates the civil rights, I believe, of the ROTC students. The federal government should immediately suspend all federal aid to San Francisco schools.

There's no reason to ban JROTC. Nobody's required to join it. And if a student with parental approval wants to investigate a career in the military, every American school should encourage that.

Obviously, the military is protecting us from terrorists, North Korea and other dangerous people. But those who believe in San Francisco values don't see it that way. They think the military is bad, the don't ask, don't tell policy evil.

Where is the ACLU on this? If a gay club was banned by the Board of Ed, wouldn't the ACLU be there in a heartbeat? You bet they would.

But San Francisco values only go one way and are largely undemocratic.

In Massachusetts, for example, the legislature refuses to let the citizens vote on gay marriage, even though 170,000 folks signed a petition asking to do that. Nope, no vote. You don't vote on civil rights, say the SP corps. Only marriage is not a civil right. If it were, polygamists could marry, triads could marry, you could marry your mom.

There is no constitutional guarantee to marry, or to drive a car, or procure a liquor license for that matter. The states make those decisions based upon what's best for the public good. In every single up-down vote on the subject, traditional marriage between a man and a woman wins.

But San Francisco values do not honor the voting process. If they believe something is right, they'll try to impose it.

Now we asked Nancy Pelosi what she thought of the ROTC ban. She's hiding under her desk. And San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom said he was glad the school board waited until after the national election because, "cheap-shot artists like O'Reilly and FOX would have exploited the vote."

Not exploiting, just reporting, Mr. Mayor. And you're welcome here any time to explain the situation. But of course, Newsom's not going to appear because San Francisco values don't encourage debate. The whole idea is to sneak things through, go around the folks.

In a democracy, there's not a lot of value to that approach. But in San Francisco and Massachusetts, it is how they do business.

And that's the Memo.

FOXNews.com - San Francisco Values Front and Center - Bill O’Reilly | The O’Reilly Factor

1) "Direct insult"? What about the direct insult to gays in denying them military jobs? Funny how that goes unmentioned in his article, even though Bill O'Reilly himself is sometimes critical of discrimination against gays.
2) "violates the civil rights"????
Joining JROTC is a civil right???
Careful there bill. You claim JROTC is a civil right, and you're opening the door as to whether it is legitimate or not for the government to discriminate against gays in the military.


Can you show me any loss of national security because the JROTC is banned here?
No?
Quit with the hyperbole.


Oh dear god. It JUST HAPPENED.
Give it time for an ACLU response before you assume an ACLU response.
Schmucks like O'Reilly jump in without all the facts.
The ACLU will get all the facts before it proceeds one way or the other.


You notice how he transitions from "San Francisco" values, and then uses Massachusetts as an example.
Somebody want to give this meat-head a geography lesson?


As it has been explained numerous times, this is a STUPID argument.
Civil rights can be discriminated against if there is a LEGITIMATE STATE INTEREST presented for doing so.
Bill O'Reilly is clueless.


Yet earlier, Bill O'Reilly claims that joining JROTC is a constitutional guarantee.
What a maroon!


Oh cut the crap.
1) The states have been making these decisions based on prejudice. Prejudice which we have seen with abandon on this message board.
They are no more making these decisions based on "what's best" than racists did when they discriminated against blacks.
2) No. Not "in every single up-down vote". Arizona???


The truly hilarious thing about this article is how stupid Bill is being.
THEY VOTED on whether or not JROTC should be allowed. And somehow for THAT he understands the mechanisms that "do not honor the voting process".


O'Reilly is such a liar that they probably never even bothered asking her.
If I were her and they did ask, I wouldn't even bother replying to this schmuck.

No one is discriminating against gays. Who said gays cannot join the military?

You really are blinded by your homo bias. You really are. That's all you can see. To hell with everyone else's right as long as homos get what they want. Bill is right. Is driving a car a right in this country? No. You don't get it and never will. Thank God you are not going to reproduce and your line will die out.

Voted? The people didn't get to vote. Only the select group. They know if the people get a chance to vote they will not get what they want. That's why the homos go to the activist judges to get what they want. When it's left to the people to decide they will invariably turn them down. You hate real democracy don't you. Why not admit it.
Prove he didn't try to get hold of Pelosi. You can't.

It would help if you were at least moderately intelligent in all of this, instead of just being pain-stakingly wrong to the point that it doesn't need to be pointed out.

We've seen how this goes before.
YOU claim that no one is discriminating against gays.
I PROVE that they are.
Then YOU turn around and claim that the discrimination is justified.

Only to repeat the cycle in a later post...

There is a MILITARY LAW which states that it is ILLEGAL for gays to serve in the military.
If somebody is found in the military to be gay, they are KICKED OUT.
That is "discrimination".


JROTC is not a right.
And quite frankly, your position seems to be "to hell with the gays' rights. Let the bigots get what they want."
My position is simple. Bigots get to be bigots in their private lives, and the government is objective and neutral. Not condemning gays nor favoring them on civil rights issues.


Is serving in the JROTC a right alias????

Driving a car has nothing to do with this. Does it prove that marriage is not a right? NO.
Bill's "driving a car" example would be better served responding to his stupid "JROTC is a civil right" comment.


Actually, alias, my partner and I plan on using a surrogate and having kids.


And WHO elected this group????
THE PEOPLE did.
Did the general population vote on the war in Iraq? No. And YOU have been expounding on how they shouldn't.
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.


Actually, as I have pointed out on NUMEROUS occasions, tihs just plain is not true.
Gay marriage is the ONLY ISSUE for which we get turned down.
Sexual orientation hate crimes? Voted in.
Sexual orientation employment protection? Voted in.
Sexual orientation harassment protection? Voted in.

Yes, it is a right. I think the feds should not give the school district any more federal funding. You can't have your cake and eat it too, but, unfortunately that is what the homos want. They want to bully people into accepting them whether they want to or not. You idiots are going to keep pushing and pushing and one day you'll push too far and then we'll see what you're made of. You'll all probably crumble like the soft soaps you are and cry and moan because you didn't get your way. Kids have been signing up for JROTC for years. This is no more than another attack by the homo lobby. Why don't you just mind your own damn business and leave decent respectable people alone.

Prove it.
I have repeatedly proven that marriage is a right.
YOU prove that JROTC is a "right" for high schoolers.

And realize that if you actually were to prove it as a "right", that would be one more reason that the military would have to answer for why it excludes homosexuals.
For why it DISCRIMINATES against homosexuals.


Parrotting Bill O'Reilly. No surprise there.


Say whaaaa????
The "cake and eating it too" would be having JROTC as a "right", but then excluding gays from that "right" WITHOUT A LEGITIMATE STATE INTEREST.
You can't have it both ways.


And here alias just starts talking about crap because he likes the sound of his own voice and he doesn't like reality.
Reality check alias. Gays have been on the "receiving" end of all sorts of crap over the decades. Being killed just for being gay. Enduring psychiatric treatment such as electroshock therapy and castration for being gay. We have had it illegal for even our sexual encounters to occur in the privacy of our own homes.

We've been taking what you've been dishing out, and we have been WINNING over time.
So keep up with your pointless and baseless threats if it makes you feel good.
Idiots like you will just keep up with the talk as you die out like the dinosaurs you are...


This coming from the guy who voted for gay sex to be illegal?
You are such a flaming hypocrite.

Oh boo freaking hoo. Gays deserve to be on the end. That's where you like it isn't it? In the end!

You keep trying to make perversion normal and it aint gonna happen. Get used to it. You're a freak. You aint gonna force people to accept you. You made your bed, now sleep in it. Whine, whine, whine until you get your way.

I wouldn't call that winning. Society is not better off when you win. All you care about is perversion and forcing people to accept it.

You know, I should just start quoting these stupid comments back at you when you start whining about how Christians can't put up religious monuments on government property.


This isn't about people being forced to "accept" me.
Gays deserve equal rights and equal job opportunities just like straights. That has nothing to do with "normal".

I realize people like you are going to lie and pretend you "know" gays. I realize people like you are going to insult gays on message boards, but when you meet a gay person face to face you'll hide your bigotry like most cowards do.

This IS NOT about "acceptance". It's about EQUALITY.

Gays have the same rights I do and job opportunities. For cripes sake man, is there any day you don't whine about some perceived crime against gays. I've never met a homo who whines as much as you do and I've known them all my life and worked with them. I think you're just a chronic obsessive compulsive.

Maybe if you dress like a man when you apply for a job instead of wearing a dress without shaving your legs, you might get hired.