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Old 04-12-2007, 01:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knot_e_lady View Post
is this administration going to admit that Iraq is a quagmire that we need to get out?
Mark my words, if the US simply pulls out of Iraq, Iraq will become-at worst-"West Iran," or-at least-"East Lebanon."

The "problem" with Iraq since the American invasion of Iraq in 2003 is, for the most part, Iran...and to a much lesser extent Syria and al-Qaeda.

And I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that we will see much more evidence to support this conclusion in the coming days, weeks, and months.

The real question is, if you ask me, does the world want to have another Iran or another Lebanon?
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Old 04-12-2007, 01:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
If you felt that way why did you volunteer?

And how did you feel when you were over there?
1) I volunteered for several reasons;

a) I believe in the mission in Afghanistan. I believe we can help those
people

b) Someone from my command had to go, I was the best trained, and the only one without family or children. I have nothing to lose, my death woulf have the least impact.

c) I joined the military to serve my country. I will do that whether I agree with the action or not. I have also served in Iraq, which I do not agree with, but I was there. Because it is my job, and my sworn duty. I believe in honor over all.

2) How did I feel while I was there? That's a complicated question. About the administration and my leadership? I was sickened, and greatly disheartened when I saw how insincere so many of our efforts to help are, and how we support Pakistan so much despite the fact that we know full well they provide aid, funds and training to our enemies. But I also felt good about the men with whom I had the privilege to serve. I felt that we were doing some good things in that country despite our administrations intentions. For the real details of how I felt, see War in the SandBox...
Fight the good fight, and die with the enemy's heart in your hand.

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Old 04-12-2007, 01:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
Mark my words, if the US simply pulls out of Iraq, Iraq will become-at worst-"West Iran," or-at least-"East Lebanon."

The "problem" with Iraq since the American invasion of Iraq in 2003 is, for the most part, Iran...and to a much lesser extent Syria and al-Qaeda.

And I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that we will see much more evidence to support this conclusion in the coming days, weeks, and months.

The real question is, if you ask me, does the world want to have another Iran or another Lebanon?
I agree with you. I just don't see why we should care. Why should we die for a country that serves us little interest but oil? The Iraqis don't want us there. It is their country, we should leave.
Fight the good fight, and die with the enemy's heart in your hand.

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Old 04-12-2007, 01:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysher View Post
That's true, but at least they're on our side - kind of

No doubt there are terrorists in the US right now planning the next attack
Pakistan is hardly on our side... with friends like them who needs enemies?

And you are right, I would say that there are terrorists in every country on the globe planning some sort of attack. We can't invade them all. Moreover, you can not defeat a concept (terror) with military forces. All it does is set up our service men & women for failure.
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Old 04-12-2007, 01:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256 View Post
1) I volunteered for several reasons;

a) I believe in the mission in Afghanistan. I believe we can help those
people

b) Someone from my command had to go, I was the best trained, and the only one without family or children. I have nothing to lose, my death woulf have the least impact.

c) I joined the military to serve my country. I will do that whether I agree with the action or not. I have also served in Iraq, which I do not agree with, but I was there. Because it is my job, and my sworn duty. I believe in honor over all.

2) How did I feel while I was there? That's a complicated question. About the administration and my leadership? I was sickened, and greatly disheartened when I saw how insincere so many of our efforts to help are, and how we support Pakistan so much despite the fact that we know full well they provide aid, funds and training to our enemies. But I also felt good about the men with whom I had the privilege to serve. I felt that we were doing some good things in that country despite our administrations intentions. For the real details of how I felt, see War in the SandBox...
I will be sure to read that later. I spent some time in Afghanistan in the 70's, before the Soviets invaded. It was very backward then and it has only got worse after 30 years of war. But the people were fascinating and a real education for us ignorant westerners who think we know it all!

Did many of your fellow soldiers feel the same way about the administration ?

How do they feel now the American people seem to be so opposed to the conflict?

Old 04-12-2007, 01:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256 View Post
1) I volunteered for several reasons;

a) I believe in the mission in Afghanistan. I believe we can help those
people

b) Someone from my command had to go, I was the best trained, and the only one without family or children. I have nothing to lose, my death woulf have the least impact.

c) I joined the military to serve my country. I will do that whether I agree with the action or not. I have also served in Iraq, which I do not agree with, but I was there. Because it is my job, and my sworn duty. I believe in honor over all.

2) How did I feel while I was there? That's a complicated question. About the administration and my leadership? I was sickened, and greatly disheartened when I saw how insincere so many of our efforts to help are, and how we support Pakistan so much despite the fact that we know full well they provide aid, funds and training to our enemies. But I also felt good about the men with whom I had the privilege to serve. I felt that we were doing some good things in that country despite our administrations intentions. For the real details of how I felt, see War in the SandBox...
Your words sound alot like my family that's already over there serving. In fact, got an e-mail from one of my brothers this morning...And he said pretty much the same thing you've said here, except about his currently being in Iraq...He's been there 37 months straight, has 3 more left and has been promised he'll be able to come state side for a bit after the 40 months are done...He doesn't expect them to let him come home for long, so he's planning on staying in Germany as he expects they'll recall him almost immediately....


I hate to say it...But his last few e-mails have been sounding more and more destraught? Especially yesterday's (he was saying he'd updated his will, wanted me to know what went to who, etc.) and today's.

Also got news that one of my nieces is being sent home to recover...Seems she was caught up in one of the explosions over there, injured, and they're just notifying us?

Worst of all, is we're (as in our troops and nation) are caught between a rock and a hard place...If we pull out there will be more trouble. If we don't, there will be more trouble...
Old 04-12-2007, 01:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256 View Post
Pakistan is hardly on our side... with friends like them who needs enemies?

And you are right, I would say that there are terrorists in every country on the globe planning some sort of attack. We can't invade them all. Moreover, you can not defeat a concept (terror) with military forces. All it does is set up our service men & women for failure.
What I mean is that the Pakistani govt wants to support us. They could just as easily have stayed on the sidelines like Saudi and the other Gulf states.

But the Pakistani govt is helpless to prevent the presence of terrorists in its country just as we are. And they face a lot of internal opposition.

Sooner or later we will have to sit down with the terrorists and discuss their issues, as has happened in Northern Ireland. Not the same situation but there are similarities

Old 04-12-2007, 01:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole256 View Post
I agree with you. I just don't see why we should care. Why should we die for a country that serves us little interest but oil? The Iraqis don't want us there. It is their country, we should leave.
Well, you are entitled to your opinion...and I disagree with it.

Surely, the Iraqis have their "own" country...but that conclusion would be highly suspect if Iraq becomes "West Iran" or "East Lebanon." And it will be a shame if the US effectively hands over the keys to Iraq, so to speak, to a non-Iraqi theocracy. And I doubt that the average Iraqi wants Iran there either, running the show...although they may be unable to prevent that from happening themselves.

And oil, in many aspects, effectively runs the World's economy...which, of course, is a great reason why the US needs to move away from oil, as a whole, in order to avoid unfriendly regimes in the Middle East.
Old 04-12-2007, 01:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlicornsPrayer View Post
Worst of all, is we're (as in our troops and nation) are caught between a rock and a hard place...If we pull out there will be more trouble. If we don't, there will be more trouble...
In my opinion, the US went after the wrong country.

If the US were to change the regime in any country, it should have been Iran.

And, even though Saddam was an extremely evil person, I think I understand how he turned out that way.

And I truely believe that he was fighting the same sort of ideology and forces over the years of his reign that the US is seeing today in Iraq.
Old 04-12-2007, 01:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloney_detector View Post
. And I doubt that the average Iraqi wants Iran there either, running the show...although they may be unable to prevent that from happening themselves.
Then perhaps they should stop all this fighting among themselves and start thinking about working together and setting up a strong government that will be able to repel Iran if they should come instead of bombing Parliament.
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